January 22: Tracking Florida COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Fatalities

January 22: Tracking Florida COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and  Fatalities

NOTE 01/01: There was no report from FDOH on 01/01.

NOTE 12/26: There was no report from FDOH on 12/25.

NOTE 11/27: There was no report from FDOH on 11/26.

NOTE 10/11: There was no DOH COVID daily report on 10/10. Therefore, the 10/11 daily number for cases and deaths will include two days. The current hospitalization numbers and the seven day average numbers will not be impacted.

NOTE 9/1: DeSantis was informed late Monday that nearly 75,000 results of Quest testing data dating as far back as April would be ingested into the state’s COVID-19 data for Tuesday’s update. Source: Orlando Sentinel.

TR will update the three charts below on a daily basis without commentary. Submit questions in the comments section.

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Positive Cases

The chart below tracks the daily positive cases and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through January 22nd.

Hospitalizations

The chart below tracks the daily hospitalizations and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through January 22nd.

Deaths

The chart below tracks the daily reported deaths and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through January 22nd.

1,320 Responses to "January 22: Tracking Florida COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Fatalities"

  1. Every 10 minutes someone in Florida dies from covid, yet vaccination centers are closed in honor of MLK day, and no vaccines are being scheduled in the coming week. But we all got $600 from the government last week, yay!

  2. My husband and I recently moved to a new town. I was due for a yearly physical and went to a local practice. I received a text message saying they had Covid vaccines, I immediately called and waited on hold about 45 minutes (not bad at all, considering), but then they said only I could get the vaccine from them, my husband could not as he was not an established patient.

    I thought that was awful. Is that normally what practices do when being given the vaccine to distribute? I would have thought with the current emergency of this pandemic, a medical practice wouldn’t be able to give itself any rights to the criteria of who gets it.

  3. I appreciate that folks are concerned about the various political issues of the day—given their prominence in the news lately—but am I the only one growing increasingly concerned by the recently reported COVID deaths? It appears the daily death count has been spiking, and has very nearly reached the peak(s) we saw during the worst part of the summer. I’m hoping people take a look at this and the increasing hospitalizations and take it as inspiration to follow the CDC’s recommendations to keep this pandemic under some degree of control.

  4. Tara, Tara, Tara,
    From all of your comments you seem to me to be a nice, caring, empathetic, giving, generous, sweet person. But, the opponents of Trump are not. For the next 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32…..years (and every year in between), Trump will be the bogeyman. God Save America!

  5. I thank God we won’t have to go through another 4 years of hatred for Trump afflicting so many with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Its main symptom is being unable to see anything through the poisonous cloud of hatred always in front of their eyes. Everything points back to Trump, has Trump at the center, and compares everything to Trump. Exhausting.

  6. “it was a coordinated effort to take down the government”

    This is one of the most riduculous ideas I’ve ever seen the media push, but I guess some people will believe anything if it’s anti-Trump.

  7. What I remember most about the protests this summer were how many Biden / Harris flags were flown at them. Every. Single. Protest. I saw at least a hundred Biden flags at every rally.

    And we all know that the reason Trump lost 60 consecutive election related lawsuits was the DEEP STATE operatives and Chinese interference, not because the evidence provided by his elite legal team was ridiculous. That’s exactly the same as people of color being executed by the police! So as we can clearly see, the motivations for both were identical.

    Not only that, but there were daily protests in dozens of cities this summer, literally hundreds of protests, and AT EVERY SINGLE ONE THEY BROKE INTO GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS, THREATENED TO SHOOT LEGISLATORS, AND BROUGHT ZIP TIES. Not only that, but Biden was giving speeches at every BLM protest, encouraging the protestors to march to government buildings and fight. Identical.

    Yep, both things are exactly the same. It’s only the LameStream Dimocrats who think anything else, and since they hate America and are traitors, I really don’t see why it matters.

    I am kind of confused as to why this page is even up though; I thought COVID was supposed to go away after the election, not get worse. (?) Also, when is Trump going to lock Hillary up? He better hurry! Maybe I can look that up on Parler.

  8. Rioting is rioting no matter what form it takes. Trespassing, destruction of property, looting are wrong no matter what the setting.

    The difference in this case is that the capital insurrection was directed by a sitting president and it was a coordinated effort to take down the government. That’s how countries get dictators.

    You don’t measure riotous events by how many people were killed or how much property was destroyed, you measure them by who was directing them and what was their intent. And even then, no intent can ever be rationalized because all of these actions are wrong.

    But when the President directs people to commit insurrection to preserve his position, THAT is the act that needs the highest level of punishment.

    All of the other crimes will be sorted out through arrests (about 300+ in the BL case and about 80 and counting at the US capital).

    All this while we watch thousands of people die every day from the pandemic that this website tracks. Very sad.

  9. Alex, I believe the Capitol riots were a culmination of a year of lawlessness and disrespect (the President’s idiocy didn’t help.)

    In Seattle, police cars were set on fire, a police station was overtaken, a major highway was blocked night after night, City Hall was invaded, and the Mayor spoke to the protestors and praised them and called them Patriots. 4 young people were killed as a direct result of this accepted lawlessness.

    I don’t think we can separate what happened at the Capitol from the the events of this past year. Sure we can find stark differences in each occurrence. But it has been a year of destruction, a year of high tension all around that began with the stress of Covid.

  10. Not sure how we got to the riots, but here we are I guess.

    Trump incited a protest. Some of the protestors rioted because they’re idiots. They broke into the capitol and took selfies.

    Honestly there were fewer attempts by the protesters to stop the rioters than I would have expected. It would have been easy given how few were rioting. That’s what disappointed me the most about this.

    That said, if this was an insurrection, supposedly planned over several weeks on Parler and other extremist apps, by a group of what must be the largest percentage of private owners on the planet, where were all the guns?

    I know the media is pushing the insurrection narrative to ensure Trump doesn’t run in 2024, but it’s kind of silly if you really think about it.

  11. Tara
    The capital riot was basically an insurrection against the legislative body of our government and instigated by the head of the executive branch of our government. The police response to the capital right compared to the police response to protests (during which there were looters and rioters) is as different as night and day or BLACK and WHITE. There were more police for the other events during 2020 including the ACB hearings and the BLM protests. Trying to conflate the two is erroneous. Nothing compares to a sitting president inciting a mob in an attempt to keep power.
    To steer it back to corona virus, it should be noted that the capital rioters were mostly not wearing masks as compared to other protesters during 2020.

  12. Yes, I know, it’s very confusing. I was speaking with some people who were outraged at the Capitol riot. And it was outrageous, to be sure. But, I asked, where was the outrage when 4 people were killed in Seattle, when police cars were burned, when police stations were taken over, when City Hall was invaded. They said it had nothing to do with the Capitol riot, what happened in Seattle was not the same because (*enter justification of your choice here*).

  13. @talesin

    I would love to believe your numbers, but if they were accurate the number of cases would be decreasing and the percent positivity would be decreasing as well assuming we were near 75% infected. The trend lines increasing would suggest we are no more than 40% infected unless we are getting infected a second time.

    However, if the percent positivity decreases to 3% and the newly infected counts drop to 1-4k then it would suggest your numbers might be accurate. I am hoping I am wrong.

  14. Tara, thank you for the clarification. I am so confused: peaceful protesters or violent mobs, police shooting an unarmed Black person or a Trump supporter killed while assaulting the “citadel of Democracy”, Trump draws 20,000 people and called it a rally or Biden yells at 7 cars and calls it a rally.
    .

  15. Pitt, you can get angry as long as the liberal media says it’s something you can get angry at. For example, you can get angry that Trump is responsible for everyone who died of Covid in the US, with the exception of those in Florida. For that, you get angry at DeSantis.

  16. Talesin, thanks for posting. The truth is this virus was weaponized for political purpose and a lot of innocent people were/are harmed/ruined/demoralized, not by the virus, but by the lockdowns. I would get angry, but that’s not allowed in USA 2021.

  17. The CDC estimates that the actual cases are between 8-10x the reported cases. If we take the lower estimate of that…1.4 million reported cases in FL x 8 = 11.2 million estimated actual cases in FL so far. If we say 15,000 new reported cases on average per day for the next 30 days, gives us another 450,000 reported cases or another 3.6 million actual cases (x8) for a total statewide of about 14.8 million out of a population of 21 million. That is almost 70% of the state’s population. Toss in about 1 million vaccine doses given out by then and we’re over 75%, getting close to full herd immunity. Unless the CDC is off on their multiplier or there are a high number of false positive cases, we should be getting close to the other side here….certainly would expect a major slow down over the next 60 days based on the math. Hang in there folks.

  18. With the vaccine picking up steam, can we get a new chart showing total # of people vaccinated in Florida and a separate line that combines vaccination count and people that already had the virus and are now immune? Even though antibody studies are estimating 5x or as high as 8x more infections than the actual case count, at least with the reported numbers we can get a better perspective on the march towards herd immunity. In Florida, since we’re counting Antigen positives in our daily case count, refer to the FDOH dashboard, which inflates our numbers, we for sure know 203,932 more are already immune without having the vaccine – hopefully these people aren’t the first in line for the vaccine. That is only the people who paid for an antigen test, not the actual number which is much, much higher.

    “Researchers found that people with antibodies from natural infections were “at much lower risk … on the order of the same kind of protection you’d get from an effective vaccine,” of getting the virus again, said Dr. Ned Sharpless, director of the U.S. National Cancer Institute.

    “It’s very, very rare” to get reinfected, he said”

    #factsversusfear

  19. “If you think a Stanford MD, Ph. D. is going to make up stuff to print in a small midwestern college magazine”

    I said nothing of the sort.

  20. Robert: If you think a Stanford MD, Ph. D. is going to make up stuff to print in a small midwestern college magazine, then I give you a trophy tin foil hat. CNN? MSNBC? NYT? WaPo? No, Hillsdale College’s Imprimus magazine. Maybe they have more clout than they think.

  21. “A whistleblower complaint filed last week with Stanford University reveals that the Santa Clara study was partially funded by JetBlue Airways founder David Neeleman”

    Wait. Are we believing whistle blowers this week? It’s so hard to keep track.

  22. It is not about dissent or not. I am really worried about the direction we are going and pray that something will slow the spread in Florida. Early people in this chat said watch the hospitalizations. We were at 2000 hospitalizations towards the end of October in Florida, 6700 yesterday, this does not look good. Someone told me last week that there is a 0.002% chance globally of dying from/with COVID. As 0.02% have already died it is clear this statistic is wrong. Any research or statistics that are false or misleading can lead to people not taking mitigation seriously, see the reports of NYE celebrations across Florida as an example.

  23. The science purported by Bhattacharya is incorrect. His case/fatality ratio is massaged to support the infection herd immunity strategy which is very dangerous.
    There was a retraction (“update”), see the summary in this article:
    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-not-to-do-an-antibody-survey-for-sars-cov-2-67488
    Update (May 18): A whistleblower complaint filed last week with Stanford University reveals that the Santa Clara study was partially funded by JetBlue Airways founder David Neeleman

  24. Pitt Warner – In the early days we didn’t test. Even if we have 10 times as many people having contracted it as are tested that would put us at 200 million now and well on the way to herd immunity. Given the number of cases in California currently that either means there must have been issues with the earlier analysis or there is no lasting immunity which bodes really badly for the vaccine….

  25. Tom Reagan’s Hat: “Seroprevalence is what I worked on in the early days of the epidemic. In April, I ran a series of studies, using antibody tests, to see how many people in California’s Santa Clara County, where I live, had been infected. At the time, there were about 1,000 COVID cases that had been identified in the county, but our antibody tests found that 50,000 people had been infected—i.e., there were 50 times more infections than identified cases. This was enormously important, because it meant that the fatality rate was not three percent, but closer to 0.2 percent; not three in 100, but two in 1,000.”

    Jay Bhattacharya is a Professor of Medicine at Stanford University, where he received both an M.D. and a Ph.D. in economics. He is also a research associate at the National Bureau of Economics Research

  26. Well I cannot BELIEVE that Lee County has suspended vaccinations over the 3 day holiday. Yay New Years! Do they realize they just bumped off a bunch of people? The Feds too? This is an emergency, they should be vaccinating every day 27/7

  27. I have been eating out 5-8 times a week since this pandemic started (except when restaurants were closed). I have also shopped 3-5 times per week at the grocery since this began. And to date I have not yet contracted covid-19. I could catch it today and die from it. My point is protect those who need protection and let the rest of us live our lives and work and do our jobs. I will not live in fear of something that I literally cannot control.

  28. Pitt Warner.. you don’t have a 98% chance of not catching the disease. You have a 98% chance of not dying from it once you catch it (though, depending on other facts about you, that chance could be much lower).

    Your odds of catching the disease are significantly higher, and rise depending on how you are living your life (eating out, not social distancing, etc.). You should take the vaccine so the U.S. can get to herd immunity and allow us to get back to a normal way of living without the risk of losing thousands of lives every single day.

  29. I am not a math person or stats person, but pls tell me if I’m off base. I have a 98%+ chance of not catching the Covid virus du jour. And the new antidote/vaccine is 95-98% successful. Why would I take a new vaccine if my odds are just as good with vaccine as not? Please explain.

  30. MJ, it doesn’t mean that at all. TAL’s comparison was apples to apples: average lifespan of those with and without Covid. To compare average remaining life of someone age 78, you’d need that figure for both total and with Covid. We won’t have the latter for another nine years, and I doubt anyone with the data will ever calculate and publish it.

    I agree there is almost certainly an impact, but we don’t know the significance, especially when you consider that most Covid deaths have co-morbidities.

  31. TAL – The average remaining lifespan for someone who reaches the age of 78 is 10 years. That means that their life is being shortened if they die from/with COVID.

  32. I think it worked out as well as it could have for DeSantis. We can’t all stay in all the time.

    Now they are saying there is a new mutation that is even more contagious. But, luckily, the new vaccine works against it. Thank god for science,

  33. looks like new cases and hospitalizations are trending up… we know deaths lag by 3 weeks give or take.

    I wouldn’t take a victory lap just yet… it didn’t work out well for DeSantis months ago.

  34. Tal, I think people blame DeSantis because it is in fashion to dump on Florida and he was a big Trump supporter. Personally, I am so glad to be living in Florida where the shutdown was ended a while ago, and we have not back-stepped into it. Bravo, DeSantis. (I don’t know how anyone could go into politics, especially in this age of social media, where places like Twitter have become cesspools of ignorance. Just go there and search on Florida Hiding Coronavirus Numbers.)

  35. The data means nothing unless you are personally affected by covid such as family member sick or dying. ;( I’m happy to wear my mask to hide in plain sight; and stay home so as not deal with morons driving like idiots and morons at the stores constantly bumping into me. *As you were, nothing to see here, move along.

  36. Really encouraging to see Florida at #20 in terms of deaths per capita with COVID-19. Notice how I didn’t say FROM COVID-19 since we know the average life expectancy for an American is 78.4 years and the average age of death of someone WITH COVID-19 is almost identical. Florida is below the US average by a good margin now and that’s with Florida being just a tick behind Maine for the highest percentage of the population 65+ years old.

    Still not sure how anyone could try to say our Governor hasn’t done about as good a job as humanly possible balancing protecting the elderly/vulnerable and letting perfectly healthy people work and try to live a somewhat normal life. I’ll take our situation over NY, NJ, Illinois, Penn, Conn, and Michigan any day. At least we still have personal freedoms in our State, don’t have people coming to our houses checking to see if we are quarantining, having to evade checkpoints at the border, and telling us who we can spend the holidays with.

  37. MJ: “It is a pity that people still want to politicize a pandemic when the 7 day avg. of deaths is over 2500 and going up. It is not surprise we keep going in the wrong direction…..”

    Not seeing where 2500 is coming from. It looks from the chart like the 7-day average of deaths is 95. They printed it on the graph. And though it’s a bit to early to tell for sure, it looks like it may be peaking.

    I agree that ideally we wouldn’t politicize a pandemic regardless the numbers, but this one has been politicized by everyone on all sides since the beginning.

  38. I worked in Tokyo for 2 years, masks were a fairly common sight. Mainly worn by people with a cold or flu, hayfever, sneezing etc — a social courtesy in a crowded city esp the subway. You wear it for the people around you, it doesn’t protect the WEARER from much of anything at all. I wear one when required, but mask hysteria has gotten ridiculous. Social distancing and hand washing are key. Let’s not overstate the efficacy of masks. Sure they help some but they won’t end the pandemic. Florida fatality numbers are way way down, that was nice to see.

  39. It is a pity that people still want to politicize a pandemic when the 7 day avg. of deaths is over 2500 and going up. It is not surprise we keep going in the wrong direction…..

  40. You should add graphs to track share prices of the drug companies to see if pandemics are effective at creating shareholder value.

  41. Time to add a good news graph. How about a graph showing the total number of people who already had the virus as well as those vaccinated. Let see the trend towards herd immunity!

  42. I have a feeling that the liberal government will not allow us to remove masks ever… Even if we get the shot. They found a way to take away freedom and destroy us from within. I guess next thing is check points in and out of cities and states and wrong thinking will be punished.

    I guess I have to be careful of what I say or they just might come and arrest me for my conservative views.

  43. another mask study from USMC via…
    2020-11-16 (5781 Mar-Cheshban 29)
    Daniel Horowitz
    episode #759: Boston Mask Party; Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease vs. out-breaks of influenzas
    Andrew G. Letizia, Irene Ramos, Ajay Obla, Carl Goforth, Dawn L. Weir, Yongchao Ge et al.: NEJM: Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease ? transmission among USMC recruits during quarantime
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

    Navy.mil: masks, distancing, repeated testing, hand-washing, etc., not enough to reduce spread
    https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2413465/navymarine-corps-covid-19-study-findings-published-in-new-england-journal-of-me/

    Thomas Novelly: Charleston SC Post & Courier: masks, distancing, repeated testing, hand-washing, etc., not enough; spread among recruits despite “strict” quarantine…but not much, imo
    https://www.postandcourier.com/news/study-shows-covid-19-spread-among-marine-recruits-under-strict-quarantine-at-the-citadel/article_2a5788ec-2510-11eb-971c-bfd51809ada0.html

    Charleston SC Post & Courier: what we can learn
    https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-marine-experiment-didnt-go-so-well-what-we-can-learn-from-it/article_b1cdb6de-2533-11eb-840d-9bcd6af9400d.html

    2020-12-14 (5781 Kislev 28)
    Ian Miller _Rational Ground_
    post-ThanksGiving: still no signs that masks work to reduce spread of Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease ?
    https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-still-no-evidence-that-masks-work/

  44. Jesse may be a proud liberal. (Not something I would brag about), but He/She is clueless when it comes to dealing with a virus. Regardless of politics. This is a virus!! Do you blame the common cold on politics?

  45. Jesse, you sure are peddling a bunch of garbage for someone, as you stated, comes here for the numbers. The numbers are all above, just stop scrolling down.

    Well, we are all frustrated with this Covid situation and need to vent, I guess. You picked this forum to do so. Better that than on your loved ones. 🙂

  46. Glad to see the traffic ramping down on this message board. What a weird conversation. I am fascinated/horrified that so many people are so effectively spinning a situation like this. I am a proud liberal. On this pandemic, I am a conservative. I guess this is an economic debate? If so, those arguing against ultra conserve response to COVID have literally F’ed the country. Morons have put us in the situation we are in, and now they are ultra vigilant. If not so horrifying…entertaining…sad…educational?

  47. DeSantis’ no lockdown/no mask mandate stance is looking pretty sound at this point. Florida’s covid deaths per million just dropped below the national average.

  48. Most of the studies cited here are really pretty vague and meaningless. They are aimed at whether wearing a mask will completely stop the spread the virus, and people are justifying not wearing masks based on the fact that it really doesn’t fully protect them.

    From a “protect yourself” perspective, the very best thing you can do is to constantly wash your hands and use hand sanitizer. Ideally after every contact with something out of your own environment. You can still contract the virus from exposure to your eyes. If you touch your mask, touch any contaminated surface, shake hands, etc, and then rub your eyes, you risk infection.

    The upshot is pretty much that, like the surgeon, the mask is to help protect others from you. If you take the attitude that “i aint wearin’ no stinkin’ mask”, You’re basically saying to heck with everyone else.

    We seem focused on the fact that wearing a mask, whether it protects the person wearing the mask or the people they might come in contact with, is that it isn’t 100%; it isn’t worth the effort. If you sneeze, or cough while wearing a mask, sure it lets some of the droplets out, but compare that to sneezing or coughing without a mask. Most people spit a bit when they talk. Same principle. Obviously keeping a good safe distance is the third leg in this stool. The only way to be certain of not spreading is quarantine.

    It’s really just common sense. If you go outside and it’s 26 degrees out, a sweater is not going to keep you toasty warm. But do you not put it on because it doesn’t?

    I heard somewhere recently that sneezing in your mask is the new pooping your pants….

    1. Just to clarify, I am not against wearing masks. I believe we should wear them, and they are certainly more helpful than not.

    2. I think a tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of people are saying, “I ain’t wearin’ no stinkin’ mask”. I think wearing a mask is stupid unless you are sickly or plan to be close to someone sickly but I wear one. The real problem is people like myself are not allowed to express an opinion that is different from the Media, Liberals, or Know It Alls. I think the masking upon entering a restaurant, then taking it off once your water arrives is stupid. I don’t think passing a stranger on the sidewalk requires people to be masked. I don’t think Orange County Mayor should fine businesses $500-$15,000 for not following his mask orders. BTW, it was reported 99.5% of 5,400 Orange County businesses were in compliance. Why make a show of fining 27 businesses unless you’re trying to weaponize the virus for political purposes. Virus is real but political theatre is worse.

  49. I have been following this site (for the data) for 8 months. I have actually been impressed by that intelligence and research capabilities of many of the posters to the message board. That said, this message board is an absolute disgrace. I would suggest to posters—-throughout history, when you have been on the wrong side of right, it has been easy to crawl into the shadows and wait it out. This is a digital record. Your kids can find it….and will be able to 5 years from now. There are probably other social media sites to consider that are far more broad reaching. Erase. Erase, erase, erase.

    1. I have found, for the most part, this board has been a reasonable combination of differing thoughts and opinions, with the occasional name-calling, intolerant post.

      1. This past Thanksgiving, I had 3 previously-invited people who unfortunately had been exposed to the virus several days prior. They said, we will wear masks. Was I comfortable with that? Of course not. Should I have told them they cannot come? That they could not spend Thanksgiving with their family? Should any health-compromised guests been asked to not come?

        It was not an easy decision to make. My point is, I did not trust the masks to protect the other guests. I will not be hosting any more holidays until this is all over, I can say that much.

          1. Funnily enough, one of the people got congestion and a sore throat 4 days later, but has tested negative. Whew! Someone actually got a common cold.

        1. Tara, you shouldn’t feel guilty, or uncomfortable. Based on the early antibody studies I estimate the number of Americans with Covid antibodies to be at least 100 million. ANYONE who has left their house and encountered humans in the last three months has been “exposed.” If you feel you must wear masks when you have family over and remain 6 feet apart. Don’t put your life on hold. Remember Covid is not a death sentence! My health care worker brother and his wife came down with the syndrome on Tuesday. I prescribed the 3-drug cocktail, they had a couple of rough days but are doing fine. They are in their 60’s.

        1. I think it’s so they don’t essentially spit into your body. When people talk small amounts of saliva come out of your mouth. You don’t have to be sneezing or coughing for that to happen. So, even if your doctor doesn’t have an infectious virus it probably is best that their saliva doesn’t get into your open body.

        2. From what I see after reading several things online, it’s twofold — protect the patient and the staff. There are also numerous articles questioning it’s efficiency. The bottom line seemed to be, might as well wear it, it’s certainly better than nothing.

          https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/infectioncontrol/16278

          My point, though, was to simply think about how much would any of us trust a mask to keep us safe? Again, I agree that it’s certainly better to wear one than to not.

  50. Sometimes you need to just look at the research. The design wasn’t there to determine if masks reduce the spread, but to see if it reduced the mask wearer risk of Covid. So yes, it is, as I pointed out another data point. There are lots of data points, in fact 50 years of them. So explain the logic that if masks can’t reduce the wearer’s risk, it can reduce other’s risk?????? Why are you so determined that masks work? Read the science………..it is weak at best. I get it…….it is one of the few things we can do and that gives us agency against this nasty virus. But, that isn’t science.

    1. Science does support the use of masks…the paper you linked clearly states “The most important limitation is that the findings are inconclusive, with CIs compatible with a 46% decrease to a 23% increase in infection.” and “The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.” While statistically weak, even it demonstrated a benefit to wearing masks: 1.7% of mask wearers developed Covid-19 vs 2.1%. If that difference, in combination with other measures reduces the rate of transmission from slightly above 1 to slightly below, it would completely change the impact the virus has on the community and the economy.

      Here is a study that looks at infection rates after state-wide mask mandates were implemented: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818. There was a noticeable reduction in the infection rates following those mandates.

      Further studies:
      https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
      https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
      https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
      https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

    2. The biggest spread is through droplets, then aerosols and a small percentage through formites. Just spray an aerosol can (deodorant, cleaner whatever) at a piece of paper, see how much ends up on it. Then do the same with a disposable mask between the paper and the aerosol, close to the aerosol nosel as your nose/mouth would be to the mask, again see what ends up on the paper. Please then come back and say there is no difference……
      A small experiment which I have done at home. If you come back and say there is not a marked difference you are having problems with doing a simple test.

      It is not a determination that masks work, it is common sense based on how the virus is known to be spreading.

      1. Aerosol droplets compared to molecular viral particles is like comparing in size the Empire State Building to an ant. But this spiky virus does want to stick to things so it is a bit baffling

    3. Vietnam now has 1350 cases from its 97M population. In the attached article they said this:

      In mid-March face masks became mandatory for all people who were outdoors.
      Unlike in other parts of the world, there was little resistance to mask-wearing.

      Along with a number of other measures you read in the article. Why are so many people determined that masks don’t work. MIB – ‘I wear only where the power-mad people demand, and for least time possible…’

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-23/how-did-vietnam-get-on-top-of-coronavirus-yet-again/12683008

      1. From https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/20/vietnam-covid-economic-growth-public-health-coronavirus

        To date, Vietnam (population: 95 million) has recorded 35 deaths from the novel coronavirus. My office building’s response was typical of the aggressive contact-tracing strategy the country adopted from the beginning of the pandemic. During the first phase, the government managed to cut off all the virus transmission routes promptly and comprehensively. Every infected person was hospitalised. People in contact with them were traced to the fourth layer and isolated. Their homes and neighbourhoods were put under local lockdown and sanitised by the army. The country has effectively been acting as if this were biological warfare.

  51. Masks mitigating the spread might not be debated at the moment, but the science is not only not settled, but is trending toward them not working to reduce the spread. The Danish study was just published looking at 4300+ participants and found no statistical significant difference in being infected between mask wearers and non-mask wearers.
    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

    I wear my mask where I am asked too, but the Swedish public medical director is correct when he says the science supporting mask wearing is weak.

    1. Hi David

      A key line for me in this report is

      The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

      All the research I read says that if all people are wearing mask the risk of infection is hugely reduced. If you wear a mask but no one else is the chance of spread is much higher. There was another survey that said that 85% of people who contacted COVID had worn always masks. The follow up should that a very large percentage of those 85% admitted to eating in restaurants which means they of course removed the mask to eat. As I said previously you can always find surveys but when the research itself says it cannot be used to conclude that masks would not be effective you cannot use it to make that point.

      1. I think if you are around people a lot you have a good chance of getting this virus, mask or no mask. Unless you stay home all the time and don’t eat around anyone.

        Of course, wearing a mask can’t hurt, so why not just wear one. I think when it first started being said that wearing a mask yourself doesn’t protect you, it’s the people around you who need to protect you, was when all the brouhaha started. A lot of people at that time were never wearing masks. And when they were called selfish and stupid, they responded by saying, basically, f#ck you. And both sides dug in.

        That is human nature and, ironically, a science in its own right.

    2. The link you provided does not provide any evidence that masks are not effective at reducing the spread of the virus as it doesn’t address the key benefit masks.

      Masks are far more effective at preventing the infected person from spreading the respiratory droplets containing the virus than they are at preventing someone from breathing them in. So, while that particular study didn’t find a statistical difference between mask wearers and non-mask wearers, the mask wearers who did catch the virus were possibly much less likely to spread it to those around them.

      The reduced likelihood of spreading the virus to someone else is why it is so important that everyone wear a mask. You are not deciding if you are going to take a chance with your health, you’re deciding to risk the health of everyone around you.

  52. Thank you tf and TomD for adding some good explanations about the nature of the vaccines! I will be taking the vaccine when offered. It is the best way to get to a point of safety and being able to regain our full lives again! I worked for 45 years as a nurse and nurse practitioner. Side effects from vaccines are VERY rare. Vaccines are safe. I am also old enough to remember many of the diseases vaccines now protect us from – they are the real danger.
    We have many problems because politicians have fomented fear in the public surrounding Covid-19. The truth is that we must still take precautions until a majority of the public is immune to this virus, either from the vaccine or contracting the virus.
    What has worked well for years and would work IF people would practice these things: wash your hands (this I can’t emphasize enough), stay home if you are sick until you are completely recovered, cough or sneeze in a tissue or your sleeve, protect the vulnerable. Masks and social distancing in public places – are still being debated. Lock downs of whole communities do more harm than good. Get yourself as healthy as possible and don’t put off seeing your health care provider – small problems only get bigger with time.

    1. Hi Pam, I will also be taking the vaccine. I do not believe masks and social distancing in public places are being debated. There is enough scientific evidence to say that they reduce the spread. A doctor on Fox News the there day said we should have been pushing mask wearing more than washing hands in the beginning. When you google for scientific studies make sure you go to the origin, the major research centers and reputable universities. There are plenty of chats where masks are put down but not in reputable reports.
      Keep safe.

    2. I agree that lock downs of whole communities do a lot of harm and should not be necessary, but they are a last resort tool to slow the spread when the number of people needing medical attention exceeds the capacity of the health care system. If everyone does their part and follows the guidelines and recommendations you explained: washing your hands (use hand sanitizer when soap and water aren’t available), social distancing, staying home when sick, and wearing a mask (at least in indoor public spaces in case you are an asymptomatic carrier so you don’t spread it to a dozen other people) there should be no need for lock downs…but when people disregard the guidelines and the case numbers start skyrocketing there can be no other choice.

    3. Vaccines are probably already in town by now. They had some in Wisconsin, and a number of plane-loads left Belgium Friday, probably under 8 hour flight to the East coast. I figure a couple hours transferring & routing, then 2-3 hours to other major cities. Just waiting for final FDA approval.

      Typically, crazy NY says they will think about being ready to begin to vaccinate EMT/life-squad, medical personnel, fire-fighters… about 3-4 weeks from now. Probably similar in Tallyhassle. Expect 5K people per day.

      I probably won’t get vaccinated any time soon, because of evil cousin ObummerDoesn’tCare, Orwellian HIPAA, etc.

      There are + & – with each of the various kinds of masks ? ?. It’s impossible to drag in enough oxygen & get rid of the CO2 while physically exerting with most, and the super medical NP95s expell as though you are not wearing a mask at all, so that isn’t blocking spread from wearer. I wear only where the power-mad people demand, and for least time possible…though spray hands & public surfaces with isopropanol, clean up with detergent & peroxide, etc. I think the “authorities” waffle, pontificate, wear them on chins instead of over nose & mouth when they think the cameras aren’t on because masks are only marginally effective & in limited contexts.

      Land of the free & home of brave or groveling subjects?

  53. People educate yourself! Do you really think the government is so trustworthy? Anyone familiar with lawsuit lost by the CDC around the end of February
    Not one single study in over 10 something years saying they were tested for safety and not ONE study to prove there is not a link and autism when given too early in life. Read up on the ingredients read up on what happens when that foreign RNA attaches to your DNA

    1. Vaccines are far safer than getting sick from the viruses for which they protect you.

      Please get your information from reliable sources, not web pages that generate thousands of dollars of add and sales revenue for quack remedies.

      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/history/index.html
      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

      The original study that demonstrated a link between vaccines and autism was completely fraudulent: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/

      If you don’t know someone who has complications from a childhood disease, thank vaccines!

    2. You are misinformed on how RNA vaccines work. They do not “attach” to your DNA at all. The DNA is found in the nucleus of the cell. The RNA strands injected in these new vaccines never make it to the nucleus. They attach to the cell, insert the RNA to the cytoplasm where the ribosomes are located to manufacture the proteins that your immune system will develop a response to. By the way, this is the EXACT mechanism the virus itself uses to invade your body. It “hijacks” your cell’s own machinery to replicate itself. This vaccine works in the same way, but only produces a part of the virus that is not harmful. Autoimmune concerns with these type of RNA based pharmaceuticals are with protocols that call for multiple injections over and over to correct genetic disorders. This would be unlikely with a vaccine against a virus in that it only calls for two doses to elicit an immune response. These RNA vaccines are a major breakthrough that will change medicine going forward.

  54. Sweden banned outdoor group gatherings of more than 8, not indoor.
    Sweden is 20th in deaths (616) per million of population in a ranking dated Nov 20, 2020. The US is 14th with 766 per million.
    Sweden trusted their citizens to act as adults and did not cause the loss of millions of jobs for the poorest of their population. The politicians on the advice of administrative healthcare researchers locked down the US and cost millions of workers and small businesses their jobs
    and livelihoods. This act increased a multitude of social issues while seem, given the above statistics, to have been ineffective in saving lives.
    Now we apparently have elected a very rich politician, who does not stand to lose a penny in another lockdown who proposes an even tighter lockdown in January!
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    1. Yes CharlieMac, all good points, but of course I’m not allowed to agree with you because we must all do what we’re told, otherwise we are just minions of the Trump way of thinking. It’s not like grown adults can do research and look at the data ourselves. Sweden only regrets not locking down their elderly and at-risk population earlier, but after months of everyone trying to shoot holes in their strategy, the critics really don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s extremely unfortunate that the Democrats who so desperately wanted to be in charge again were willing to do whatever it took, call it a “scorched earth” policy, to win the Presidency. This even meant putting people out of work, yes, even the ones who WANT to work, not their typical base. It got even worse towards the end when the vaccine was close to fruition, but they had to put out negative press about the vaccine during debates, campaign speeches, CNN interviews, etc, to the point where the people that really need it won’t even take it now.

      Obviously masks and lockdowns have worked so well, so why should we try something new like a vaccine with 90+% efficacy. Dems are already on record demanding that masks need to be worn until the end of 2021. These are the same morons who want the US to pay India and China billions of dollars to clean up their carbon emissions and defund the police. Brilliant

      1. Tal – Get off the political soapbox. After what has gone on with the election ‘fraud’ suggestions from the Trump administration to blame the other side for negative press on the vaccine looks ridiculous.

        To say ‘Obviously masks and lockdowns have worked so well, so why should we try something new like a vaccine with 90+% efficacy.’ is moronic in the extreme, masks are to get us to the vaccine while trying to have as few unnecessary deaths as possible.

        I am not a democrat but believe in democracy before you go off on that tack,

  55. How can an event like Cleetus and Cars be allowed to operate? Watch the videos of 21Nov20. No social distancing, no masks, just utter nonsense. If people are denying (like they did with global warming, and some still are) COVID isn’t real….Smh….Idk what to say to you other than….get your head out of your…

  56. I started on COPD/Asthma Herbal formula treatment from Akanni herbs centre , the treatment worked incredibly for my lungs condition. I used the herbal treatment for almost 5 months, it reversed my chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. My severe shortness of breath, dry cough, low energy, fatigue, chest tightness and others gradually disappeared. Visit Akanni herbs clinic official web page  Akanniherbalcentre com This COPD treatment has improved the quality of my life greatly, i breath much better and It feels comfortable!

    1. Interesting…but it doesn’t make much sense on the face of it. How would it be that it was roaming around Italy but rarely, if ever, killing anyone, and once it “shows” in Wuhan it caused a huge outbreak.

      I wonder if they could have contaminated the samples at some point? I haven’t looked up the paper, but the article didn’t have much detail. Was it the samples they took back in September 2019 or ones from March 2020? Could the virus have been non-lethal but mutated to something more deadly and that’s when it “showed”? No idea. Hope they look into it further.

      This link below is not conclusive but goes into some more information:

      https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3110576/coronavirus-italian-paper-origins-pandemic-hit-backlash

      1. The scientists in this country are pretty consistent against the virus being here earlier than they originally thought.

        I know several people who believe they had it in mid December. They could be wrong, I guess, but it’s awfully odd their symptoms were exactly the same as what positive-tested people had.

      2. Also, to answer your question, there were antibodies found in some early October samples, something one can find as easily as one can find the article shedding doubt on the study linked above which, by the way, is from the South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper.

      3. It “showed” in Wuhan, Hubei in 2019 August. Hospital visits, traffic, hospital parking lots, communications traffic, etc.
        I figure many people were asymptomatic or thought they had common colds, and the Red China ruling gangsters wanted to “save face” so did not announce it.

        2020-06-09 (5780 Sivan 17)
        John Hayward _Breitbart_
        Harvard study suggests Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov out-break may have begun in August based on hospital & communications traffic: previous efforts had estimated December or October
        2020-05-11: Eric Haseltine, Ph.D.: Psychology Today: mysterious blips in records of searches for “SARS” & “coronavirus” in 2019 September & October raise questions about time-line
        van Dorp et al.: Science Direct/Infection, Genetics, and Evolution: emergence of genomic diversity and recurrent mutations in SARS-cov-2
        2020-05-04: David Cyranoski: Nature
        South China Morning Post: time of the most recent common ancestor (tMRCA) of 7666 strains of Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov

    1. COVID-related hospitalizations in Florida are about 1/3 they were during the peak in July – 9500 then versus 3300 now. News flash, hospitalizations (and deaths) are always higher in the Fall/Winter months. This is nothing new and is primarily due to the Common Flu and Pneumonia, which is definitely getting blended with these COVID numbers now. Remember, it pays more (Medicare) to put COVID as part of the diagnosis.

      I guess those folks in the Midwest that have had mask mandates since the beginning of the Pandemic must need to wear two masks now. New York and New Jersey too,

      Protect the vulnerable, and let’s just all agree that we need to get the vaccines and new treatments to the masses, and stop worrying about Trump taking credit. As we all know by now, lockdowns and masks did not do ANYTHING to stop this virus. It’s still here, and exists in every nook and cranny now thanks to Joe’s buddies in China.

      1. Masks work. Logically, a physical barrier will reduce (not prevent) spread of any respiratory illness (reduction of potential energy of particles reduces range). Flu numbers are down worldwide because other countries are using them to combat COVID and masks work on more than just this disease.

        Lockdowns are not put in place as a cure. Lockdowns used to immediately change the conditions on the ground to reduce the opportunities for disease to spread. Governments were to use this opportunity to improve testing and contact tracing. Regardless of the pandemic, identifying and isolating potentially sick individuals through testing and contact tracing is standard procedure. These techniques are time tested and proven effective.

        Medicare pays more when there is a positive test for COVID because it is a real threat that is more expensive to treat currently (PPE, isolation beds, etc.)

        Other countries did a better job during their shutdowns when it came to testing and contact tracing. Their economies are already bouncing back.

        Most of us are hurting financially from this pandemic and want our economy back that doesn’t mean that the right answer is denial. Just as tourists would avoid a warzone or restaurants/business that appear dirty, tourists will avoid Florida until we get our act together. We needed our state to be a clean, safe place that invites tourists to spend our money here and keeps our elderly safe. DeSantis needs to think longer term as our current increasing caseloads are a direct result of his failure of leadership and focus on the short term.

        1. Not even sure where to begin to rebut most of these untruths so I’ll just state facts that can’t be disputed.

          Florida is #14 in the US when it comes to deaths/million and #20 when it comes to cases/million. Yes I’m including DC if you want to split hairs, but since those people get a say in the election, I’m counting them.

          This is despite being the 3rd largest State by population and the largest percentage of elderly in the US. I still remember CNN and MSNBC gleefully reporting 2.2M would die in Florida from COVID. Sorry CNN and MSNBC.

          People are fleeing to Florida and other Republican run States to get away from these stupid, Draconian measures being employed in traditionally Blue States. Our economy is doing just fine and last time I checked, we still don’t pay State taxes even though crack-head Gilllum wanted it.

          If anyone is still hurting financially, it’s because Counties like Broward are still run by Liberals and unelected morons like Bertha Henry,

          Other countries, especially Europe, are hurting big time, except for Sweden of course. Sweden treated their people like aduts, and their economy never went in the tank in the first place.

          Just the facts please, not fear and hyperbole to try and steal an election,

          1. Are you saying that Republican run states like South Dakota are doing a good job with Covid? Just the facts please on cases, positivity, hospitalizations and mortality (current figures for example last 2 weeks).

            Also the facts on Sweden v its neighbours.

            I believe we all need to look at what we can do to stop the spread. We were told by scientists throughout the summer that if we did not bring done the cases to a reasonable level the surge would be much worse, now here we are.

          2. Tal, I see you are on here a lot posting. For someone that clearly doesn’t care about the virus, it’s surprising. You may not care about your health or that of those around you, but some people do, so maybe your time is better served doing something else. You clearly are not going to be a part of the solution here until the virus impacts you or a loved one, which I hope you never have to go through. We have been dealing with this virus since early this year. There is light at the end of the tunnel with promising vaccines that will be here in a few months. Why can’t we all just agree to hunker down for a few months and slow the spread and potentially save a few lives as we wait for the vaccine? I’m not saying shut everything down, just be smart about gathering, practice social distancing, and wear a mask. Is a few months too much to ask?

          3. I see you did not want to reply with facts. Maybe that is because most of your post is your opinion and name calling. If only this was not so serious your post would be funny in its imbecility calling for facts and spouting rubbish.

          4. Rick – Much of Europe is in hard lockdown where you will be ticked for wandering more than 3 kilometers from your house, closing all “non-essential” businesses, and wartime curfews. Meanwhile in Sweden they closed nothing and limited PUBLIC gatherings to 8 people which does not apply to private gatherings. So essentially Sweden has banned concerts. Not sure that qualifies in any way of reversing course in favor of lockdowns. Actually just seems like a highly unobtrusive and reasonable approach.

      2. You’re drinking the trump kool -aid. Look up the facts. Flu virus is less transmissible than cv19. Cv-19 will kill you more easily. Wear a mask when indoors and be healthy. Flu will be less this year due to mask wearing. Doctors don’t want to see more covid. Doctors don’t make more for covid diagnosis. Don’t you think remsivir/ nursing etc costs more when you got Covid vs flu. Smarten up. This country is being selfish.

        1. I guess we all have a different idea of what “better” is. Sweden’s GDP is in far better shape than their neighbors, please show me something that indicates otherwise. Even more important, looking at yesterday’s data for new deaths in Europe:

          Sweden – 4
          Netherlands – 82
          Belgium – 223
          Germany – 244
          Spain – 351
          UK – 529
          Italy – 753

          People that watch CNN and MSNBC for their daily news still look at cases as the #1 criteria. Sorry, but I still think how many people are dying is the more important statistic. Silly me

          1. Tal – As you said silly you. Please quote all relevant facts when trying to push your view as you say facts are important.

            Deaths per million population for the Nordic countries since pandemic started. In case you are unsure these are Sweden’s most comparable neighbors:

            Sweden – 626
            Norway – 56
            Finland – 68
            Denmark- 133

            As you said how many people are dying is the more important statistic.

          2. MJ – When viewing demographics Belgium has more commonality with lifestyle along with densely packed immigrant and refugee communities.

            Deaths per million:
            Belgium – 1,323.23
            UK – 803.18
            Sweden – 616.4
            Netherlands – 501.71

            Deaths in Sweden were already on a trajectory three times as high when Denmark instituted their first lockdown (around 7 times higher than Norway). It takes at least three weeks from contraction to die from COVID which would put the first effects on deaths in Denmark at around April 5th (started lockdown in mid-March).

            Nordic deaths graph:
            https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2020/04/05/sweden-prepares-for-possible-tighter-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs/

            It was clear before the lockdowns that Sweden was going to suffer more deaths.

      3. You can “protect the vulnerable” by wearing a mask and social distancing, you can protect the economy by wearing a mask and social distancing, you can relieve the pressure on the healthcare system and our essential workers b wearing a mask and social distancing. All the rest of this is political bull.

      4. mr trump & VP has planned a RALLY in FLORIDA! Plans to FIGHT to be re-elected!
        Fight thru DECEMBER. GAWD. Biden is gonna take Georgia.
        USA PRESIDENT IS A LOSER with an AGENDA.

      5. Florida most likely will not have as many problem through the winter for exactly the reasons you’re stating…it’s warmer and the cold/flu season is milder here, so that will help with this as well since it’s spreads in similar fashion.

        The areas that actually have the higher rates of infection right now are the areas that don’t have mask mandates. New York’s positivity rate is just now around 3% because, of course, it’s going to go up somewhat during the winter months for reasons already stated.

        The area that I’m in was going up up up and then masks were mandated and then, yes, the rate when down. That’s what happens everywhere people actually start wearing masks. They do help and if you do get it you’re more likely to get a low dose, a less severe outcome.

      6. Can’t understand why you believe this crap. Because your god told you I would guess. I did not already say this as I put my email in wrong and it did not send. Not to worry this person could care less. No sense in commenting. It won’t change the deniers.

    2. Keep our eyes on these figures: total current daily deaths relative to average of past decade, adjusted for population growth. And current TOTAL current hospitalizations vs. average of past ten years. Number of covid deaths is meaningless if we do not know the total deaths above baseline (ca. 8,000 per day nationally).

  57. Without a chart to show how many “HOURS” the average stay in the hospital actual is, the new hospitalizations don’t show the true story. As someone who is currently undergoing Cancer treatment, I am getting to spend a lot of time with Doctors and nurses. I am hearing the average stay is less than 36 hours. A huge number is less than 24 hours.

    1. The total current hospitalizations is important and we are up over 50% in the last month. Lets hope it doesn’t keep going up. Near us hear the largest hospital in Pinellas only has 1 ICU bed free…..

    2. My sister is an ER nurse. About 2 weeks ago, lost her taste, body aches, slight fever. Uh oh, we thought because she is also asthmatic. Sure enough, she had COVID. After a couple of days, she figured she needed to go to the hospital. She was admitted, got some treatments, and was released 24 hours later. Yesterday she went for a test to see if she was cleared to return to work. No one else in the family got COVID and other than a lingering dry cough which gets better each day she feels fine. If she gets a negative test, we will have them for Thanksgiving.

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  59. Locally hospitalizations continue a downward trend at 29 total; 9 at TMH and 20 at CRMC as of Friday as reported in the Demicrat

  60. I still see people comparing countries and states as to how they have fared with The Virus. But that’s basically impossible.

    Things which must be taken into account when comparing countries or states in terms of their success in minimizing the effects of COVID-19:
    * Population density
    * % Black population (higher mortality)
    * Average age
    * Island (or nearly an island)
    * Cultural norms of conformity
    * Strong states vs. Federal govt.
    * Vitamin D exposure
    * HCQ use
    * When they got first infection
    * How open the borders
    * How seniors are cared for
    * Sex rates and number of partners
    * Fake news effect
    * Privacy limits
    * Data credibility
    * Lying about contact tracing
    * Which “type” of coronavirus dominated
    * Comorbidities
    * Population density distribution
    * Transportation mechanisms
    * Average BMI
    And of course you have to wait until the end of the coronavirus everywhere to know how a country performed overall. Infections are likely to return to most places that have it under control.

    1. I get that each country is different. Surely each government knows there demographic etc. breakdown so the response should be more aggressive or less aggressive depending on the risk.

      For those touting the Sweden approach they have had restrictions on groups larger than 5 since early on (inside and out) and are now tightening other restrictions.
      https://www.euronews.com/2020/11/13/sweden-introduces-tighter-restrictions-to-halt-surging-coronavirus-cases

  61. I might never get over this thread. I used to think, if all of these talented people who play guitar hero actually spent the time to learn to play guitar, they would be amazing.

  62. I wore a mask all year. I also use 70 percent alcohol on my hands when I enter my vehicle from wherever I was. I also keep my distance from people. I have not had a cold all year. I like that. I have no problem wearinng the mask. I’m not going to wear it outside. No one is going to make me do that. I’m not wearing in a large store where I am only customer in there. I’m not wearing it in my vehicle. So I hope nobody tries to mandate some national mask wearing outside the home. It is way over the top. Trump handled the whole mask thing wrong. I understand what he was trying to do. We need to get the country open. We are already heading toward paying a big price. The less we are closed the better it will be. Won’t impact me as I already have made my money. I’m safe. But there will be many that will lose their jobs and will not be able to find work. There is a reckoning coming.

    1. I fear you are right. I don’t know how New York City will recover. There hasn’t been a play performed since March. Everyone I know who works there is still working from home. The city that never sleeps is practically comatose.

      One of the hardest hit are the hair and nail salon owners. Numerous businesses have gone under. These were people who invested in a business and ended up losing it to a virus that is serious for a very low % of the population.

      1. This is really sad Tara, but it’s all about a political calculation by these liberal Mayors and Governors. Even though small and medium business owners are suffering, they make up a small percentage of the constituents that elect these same clowns over and over and over and over…..

        People out of work, no problem, we’ll take care of them and make them totally dependent upon the Gov’t for aspect of their lives. These are the same cities that are flat out broke due to poor leadership and looking to get bailed out as part of these proposed COVID-19 stimulus packages. Most of us know better that these problems were created decades ago, not with COVID-19.

        Same with Chicago, Philadelphia, LA, Detroit, Baltimore, etc, etc, etc

          1. Absolutely correct Debi. As a public health educator/epidemiologist even I find it difficult to work the numbers & analyze what’s happening around the US regarding COVID. We’ll be compiling data, crunching numbers & trying to figure it out for the next 20+ years. People are looking for a scapegoat, pointing fingers when they have no idea what they’re talking about.
            Had Trump mandated closures & masks in March people would’ve been in an uproar. Americans don’t like to be told what to do, even if it’s for their own good. People are still resisting masks even when it’s been shown masks are an effective deterrent to infection.
            I’m hopeful Moderna’s vaccine which was just reported Monday as being 94.5% effective will become available mid-Dec.for high risk people & our health care workers & the rest of the population by April.

  63. This is a complicated subject and much is still not known about this virus. I would recommend that we give one another some slack. We are all humans and we all want the best for us. It doesn’t matter if the President is Trump, Biden, Obama, or whomever….any President would do his best and for anyone here to suggest otherwise is just a terrible thing to see. Remember Trump lost his brother and friends to the virus. As long as you make him out to be a cold evil demon you have no credibility with me. 70 plus million people voted for Trump. You need to respect that. The subject is complicated and we need to respect one another. Discuss it with kindness.

    1. President Trump has repeatedly said the COVID crisis was a media-driven lie that would disappear the day after the election. I’m sorry, but he is not “doing his best” to fix this problem. As the nation is seeing its highest levels of both cases and hospitalizations since the pandemic started, he is golfing and contesting the results of a fair election… and hasn’t said a SINGLE WORD about the increasingly dire situation. Please don’t defend the indefensible.

      1. I don’t believe Trump ever said the virus a media driven lie that would disappear the day after the election. If you can find the quote, please post it. I’d love to read it. (pls be careful and honest)

        1. This was Trump two weeks ago (the caps are his): “ALL THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS COVID, COVID, COVID. ON NOVEMBER 4th, YOU WON’T BE HEARING SO MUCH ABOUT IT ANYMORE. WE ARE ROUNDING THE TURN!!!”

          To be “careful and honest,” he was not saying the virus itself is a lie, just that the media was sensationalizing it in order to hurt his chances at reelection.

          1. So your original comment above was a lie. Correct? You falsely interpret Trump, spread the untruths, and expect what? Recognition? Fame? You may want to revisit some basic laws of humanity.

          2. So would you prefer Trump stay locked down in a bunker? What is your plan? Personally, I feel having the leader of the free world spreading fear on a daily basis is not really leading at all. What would Biden have done differently, been more empathetic? How does that help? Did Roosevelt say “oh my God, the Japanese killed another 10000 Americans in the Pacific” as part of his daily address? Or maybe Eisenhower should have called off D-Day because a bunch of 18-19 year olds were going to die on the beaches of Normandy. Trump’s actions were far more important than his words or demeanor, which is why we now have a vaccine getting ready to be distributed to millions in RECORD time. That had to be the top priority, along with treatments like Remdesivir from DAY 1. Make no mistake, either Obama or Biden would have kept us locked down and hoped the virus would magically disappear. We know that didn’t work, and caused more harm, but the addiction and depression-related deaths are not being talked about breathlessly by the media. Just look at Europe, except for Sweden, how are they doing now? And that is AFTER prolonged lockdowns and mask wearing. Sweden must be laughing their collective heads off at the rest of the World.

          3. The leader of the free world should be doing his job. Not fighting to overturn a democratic election.

            Sweden deaths per m 601 Germany 144 Canada 282. Not sure they will be laughing at the rest of the world. Looks a little better than us but not much.

          4. Making semantic arguments to defend Donald Friggin’ Trump isn’t exhibiting “basic laws of humanity.” This man has never shown an ounce of compassion for the now 240k+ American lives lost to a disease, let alone advocated something as simple as wearing a mask, which if he hadn’t made it into a political statement could have saved many of those lives. We are in the most extreme period to date in terms of cases and hospitalizations and the president of the United States hasn’t said a single word about it, except to accuse a drug company with a promising vaccine of playing politics with the announcement. Instead, he is spending all of his time broadcasting debunked conspiracy theories, filing frivolous lawsuits, and attacking Fox News, all because his feelings are hurt after he badly lost an election. The only thing sadder than the behavior of this narcissistic grifter child is the behavior of those who apologize for him.

          5. I’d bet one thing….if Trump had to do it all over, he’d play the concerned father figure, doling out mask-wearing advice and talking incessantly about those who died and what a shame it is. And in between that, he’d be encouraging all his supporters to mail-in vote. If he had it to do it all over……

          6. MJ you should learn to read. Worldometer and Johns Hopkins, Sweden death rate per m better than UK, France, USA, and twenty other nations.

        2. When: Friday, February 7, and Wednesday, February 19
          The claim: The coronavirus would weaken “when we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”

          When: Thursday, February 27
          The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”

          When: Multiple times
          The claim: If the economic shutdown continues, deaths by suicide “definitely would be in far greater numbers than the numbers that we’re talking about” for COVID-19 deaths.
          When: Multiple times
          The claim: “Coronavirus numbers are looking MUCH better, going down almost everywhere,” and cases are “coming way down.”

          When: Wednesday, June 17
          The claim: The pandemic is “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”

          When: Thursday, July 2
          The claim: The pandemic is “getting under control.”
          When: Saturday, July 4
          The claim: “99%” of COVID-19 cases are “totally harmless.”

          When: Thursday, August 27
          The claim: The U.S. has “among the lowest case-fatality rates of any major country anywhere in the world.”
          The truth: When Trump said this, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, and India all had lower case-fatality rates than the U.S., which sat in the middle of performance rankings among all nations and among the 20 countries hardest hit by the virus.

          When: Multiple times
          The claim: The media is overblowing fears about the virus ahead of Election Day.
          The truth: Has journalism stopped covering the pandemic after Trump lost the election?

          When: Multiple times
          The claim: “Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country.”
          HAHAHAHA

          When: Multiple times
          The claim: The Trump administration’s travel restrictions on China were a “ban” that closed up the “entire” United States and “kept China out.”
          The truth: Nearly 40,000 people traveled from China to the United States from February 2, when Trump’s travel restrictions went into effect, to April 4th.

          When: Thursday, March 26
          The claim: This kind of pandemic “was something nobody thought could happen … Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened.”
          Truth: In case you forgot, this dude was alerted to the presence of the virus in the very end of 2020 and did nothing, while the republicans who knew sold their stocks. The USA might have known earlier if Trump hadn’t dismantled and defunded the US infectious diseases team in China just earlier that year.

  64. Suggest TR report Leon County and Florida stats on hospitalizations and deaths at the same time to get full perspectives.

  65. The current research shows that masks work to reduce the spread and severity of Covid-19 (and likely other illnesses like the flu). The research is indicating that the volume of viral particles determine the severity of the disease. Masks work since they reduce the volume spread and reduce the distance that they can travel by absorbing the energy. Basically, a single bee sting is not a big deal to most people but a swarm of bees can pose a significant risk to most people. Fewer stings means better outcomes. Less virus means better outcomes. They don’t need to block 100% of the virus. Any reduction will result in better outcomes. Universal mask usage is key to controlling the outbreak and getting the economy back up.

      1. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948-t1

        there are a lot of caveats. it has to fit properly; you have to refrain from fiddling with it & pulling it down the way BiteMe & Fauci do; it has to be made from the right materials with the right balance between oxygen intake & CO2 out-flow & the 850 billion viral particles per square inch Wuhan.

        https://amgreatness.com/2020/10/24/if-masks-dont-work-why-do-we-keep-wearing-them/

        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf
        Table page 4
        “Reported use of cloth face covering or mask 14 days before illness onset (missing = 2)
        Case-patients
        Never 6 (3.9%)
        Rarely 6 (3.9%)
        Sometimes 11 (7.2%)
        Often 22 (14.4%)
        Always 108 (70.6%)…”

    1. Agree Aaron. We need to be careful when issuing irreproachable claims that masks work because there are no scientifically sound studies proving they do and certainly none that are peer reviewed. There is good anecdotal evidence that they can help with very close contact situations like at a barber but almost none on use outside or on universal wearing.

      However, open to seeing any updates to this situation if you have any sources. I just ask we stick to sound research and studies before posting low quality confirmation biased “studies”

      1. You are a closed minded idiot that will only accept the truth one a sociopath, sore loser tells you it is ok to do so. Your sad existence that is based on a fanboy love for someone that doesn’t care about you or any of your fellow supporters really makes me sad for you, but don’t let that impact the many Americans that deserve to live and have a happy, full life if we just listen to the intelligent doctors and scientists.

        1. and you had to go down the path of being obnoxious with ‘You are a closed minded idiot’. That’s the best you can do (smh)?

      2. New CDC guidelines do give a list of citations on masks – but as the disclaimer states effectiveness has been demonstrated through observation and epidemiological studies.
        The MSM media has politicized masks so much – I worry that we have lost the cornerstone of all infection control – hand washing. Frequent and correctly practiced hand washing is essential – especially because most people touch their masks frequently.

        1. Don’t forget distancing. Every time I go to the store some moron employee comes and stands next to me restocking shelves. Why are you standing next to me? I have a mask on, I have to do my job. Well you’re going to have a hell of a time doing your job from a hospital bed. Distancing is proven, mask is not.

      3. Kevin, you can find many peer-reviewed studies about the effectiveness of masks (various materials) in JAPA and The Lancet. There has been peer reviewed research on scenario-based research of masks by infectious diseases for decades, but the most recent ones (since the beginning of this pandemic mobilization) are also available. A good one recently came out of Japan. Perhaps just based on the chance that they might protect our fellow humans, we could wear one. But if you need hard evidence of how effect a mask is to justify wearing one – happy reading! 🙂

      1. Perhaps I was not specific enough … “The research is indicating that the volume of viral particles determine the severity of the disease. ”

        This is the line that you wrote which is unfounded. I think that you are confusing viral load with viral dose. Viral dose is the amount of the virus that you come in contact which can determine whether you get sick, while viral load is the amount of the virus in your body when you are sick. There are studies which show the higher your viral load the worse your symptoms (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.22.20199125v1.full.pdf) , but there are none that connect the individuals viral load to the viral dose which caused them to get sick in the first place. A virus like this is nothing like a bee sting, it replicates exponentially inside your body and how quickly and how many times it reproduces is a factor of a lot of variables, and none of them are known to be the viral dose that you initially met with (unless you can find a study that I am unaware of).

        I am not going to get into the efficiency or effectiveness of masks because that is just beating a dead horse.

          1. No that is not what I am saying and not the part of the original post that I think was wrong. The original claim is that the less viral particles in the air , the less “the severity of the disease.” if you do catch it.

            My objection is that as far as I can find there is no correlation between how severely sick a person gets and how much of the virus they initially came into contact with. How much of the virus you come in contact with may determine whether or not you get infected. However, if you get infected I have found no evidence that there is a difference whether it was from standing in a room full of Covid patients coughing on you, or if it was from one person you interacted with briefly.

        1. Ok I get your point. When you said show your sources I thought you were disputing that masks reduce the spread as well as the severity.

          Until we have a vaccine in circulation for most of the population I think masks are the best we have for those who cannot be outside and social distance. People need to work and masks are the only way to make it a little safer at the moment.

  66. Mike, maybe you should look in the mirror and do some of your own research versus name calling. Take a look at Sweden, doing better than all of Europe and not seeing any “surge” like the rest of Europe that has had mask mandates throughout. Same with Blue States in the US like Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan. The virus is going to do what it’s going to do, a piece of cloth is not going to stop it, and certainly not inside a residence where family members don’t even wear a mask – are you advocating that? Your best defense is being in good shape, and if you aren’t, better to have your groceries delivered and stay away from your family.

    Japan and most of the Asian countries are doing better than Europe and the US because most of their population is not morbidly obese and diabetes is not prevalent like it is in the US, particularly with minorities who are 4 to 5 times more likely to die from COVID-19. Fact per the CDC.

    The average age of death from COVID-19 in the US is 78, actually 79 in Florida per FDOH. The average life expectancy of an American is 78.4. Coincidence?

    All this talk about masks is mind-numbing, there are only two ways to deal with this virus and any other pathogen that has come before. 1.) Vaccine, 2.) Natural Immunity.

    1. Japan is also testing at a significantly lower frequency than the U.S (roughly 22,000 tests per 1M people in Japan, compared to 455,000 tests per 1M people in the U.S.). That could definitely explain the delta between total cases.

      1. You need to test less when you have less community spread not more.. for most of the pandemic Japans positivity rate has been way belo the US hence the need to test a lot less.

        1. There is a reason for this lack of testing in Japan. Their policy is to focus on testing people when they are actually sick and also their insurance plans don’t cover tests for people that want to get tested, “just because”.

          “For this reason, the Health, Labor, and Welfare Ministry recommended that patients without any underlying conditions be kept at home, and that testing capacity be focused on people who had had close contact with COVID-19 patients as well as older persons with underlying conditions.”

          Same explanation for why the NE States aren’t officially showing MILLIONS of cases since they couldn’t test everyone and everything that moved back in the Spring. Japan also doesn’t isolate and quarantine a bunch of perfectly healthy people which leads to many other mental and physical issues like drug abuse and suicide. This is why hospitalizations and deaths, particularly excess deaths, are a much better barometer.

          1. Why do you think they have a much lower positivity?

            If they only test sick people it should be higher than here but it is way lower. This means you can do less testing when Covid is under control. As we have seen in the North at the moment positivity here is through the roof and the virus is really out of control.

            I fully agree that initially in the NE testing was not available hence the number is way low there. Another reason it ran out of control is that we had done 8000 tests by early March. S. Korea which had its 1st test on the same day as us had done over 100K tests by early March.

    2. The Asian countries are also using Contact Tracing Apps to isolate new covid cases and stop the spread of the disease. In many countries, the app is mandated along with wrist bands to ensure you stay quarantined. South Korea has a novel covid avoidance app. The State of Virginia released a Contact Tracing app in July and I believe it has had very low acceptance

  67. I live in Michigan, worked in the fitness industry and am considering a move to Florida where I can have a job and some freedom. I pray for the day where I don’t have to read someone virtue signalling online about masks. What have we been lowered to? Are we all going to live in fear until we die? We all die. We all get sick. My god people, wake up. Why would you deliberately give up your freedom in a state that is trying to help you?

      1. If you look outside the state of Florida there are a lot of states that have launched attacks against basic freedoms and many people seem to be willingly accepting it. I will go into just a few of the more ridiculous ones.(most all of these “rights” fall under right to peaceful assembly)

        California — The right to hold Thanksgiving dinner https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/11/1/21541820/california-thanksgiving-rules-guidelines

        New York — The right to have a wedding
        https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/officials-continue-to-break-up-weddings-large-gatherings-on-long-island/2653322/

        Too many states — The right to go out to eat at a restaurant. https://patch.com/illinois/across-il/il-nears-statewide-ban-indoor-dining

        These are just some examples of the government overreach. They work for us , they do not get to control us. We are all aware at this point of the dangers of Covid, but life must go on. We are fortunate to live in one of the states that re-opened the fastest , but lest we forget even Florida took away our most basic right of going to the beach to enjoy the Ocean (or Gulf for us west coasters).

    1. Thank you, Brandi. I agree. For the vast majority of people, this is little more than a cold.

      I was in a discussion with some friends about why the whole world has gone on board with this. It’s puzzling, for sure. A lot of the deaths are people who were dying anyway. Granted, it shortened some lives, especially grandmas and grandpas who could have had more years. But, to me, at a certain age I expect something to come along that could take me out. And like you said, should we live in fear every day of that something?

      I am thankful every day I retired to Florida. I was born in NJ and lived in NY before retiring to FL. We can’t hide from this virus forever….it’s waiting. I heard NY may shut down again. There was one story of a batshit crazy undertaker who was throwing bodies in a UHaul and all you hear is “so many people were dying they had to put them in trucks.”

      1. Are you referring to the refrigerated trucks they were using to hold the bodies? If there was a story about 1 person using a UHaul I missed it so I just wanted to clarify.

      1. I think seat belts are a good comparison. Do you really need a seat belt in 20-35 mph, stop and go traffic, with lots of traffic lights, school zones, ped crossings, suburban settings? I usually belt up, but if you’re a careful driver driving in a typical small town setting under 30 mph, I think I’m not in harm if I don’t buckle up. (I wear a seat belt 98%). Driving on a highway at 60 -70 mph and getting blown away by everything from Tuners, truckers, bikes going 80+ mph, I always wear a seat belt. Same with masks. Wear them where it makes sense. Walking on a sidewalk past diners eating outside, I don’t really need to worry. Same with people on sidewalks. I don’t care if you’re not wearing/not wearing. So far, so good.

        1. If you are “only” going 25 and are in a head-on your air bag will have your head resting in your lap. Air bags are the best reason to wear a seat belt.

      1. My take on Brandi’s post was that she was concerned with loss of jobs and the freedom to work. Her comment on masks was just on the never-ending conversation about them, as evidenced here. The name-calling and insults and everything being about masks is exactly what she said she was hoping would end. I could be wrong, but I don’t think she meant not wearing them.

    2. Brandi,
      PLEASE! Educate yourself. Look at Japan’s numbers compared to the USA. Using data from the CDC (an American organization), in the US, you’re 50 times more likely to catch Covid, and if you catch it you’re twice as likely to die. What’s the difference? Japan has NO mask shaming Republicans.. They’ve been wearing masks every flu season since the 90’s. LOOK AT THE DATA NOT THE TELEVISION. DO YOUR RESEARCH. THEN APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE YOU’VE TRIED TO SHAME.. ignorant ass.. please DONT move to Florida, weve already got WAY too many self righteous Yankees..

      1. Mike,
        You are comparing completely different populations, climates, and ethnicities.

        Obesity Rate in US is 42.4% (this is insane)
        Obesity Rate in Japan is 4.3%

        Its been shown that High Blood Pressure, diabetes, and metabolic dysfunction in general are significant co-morbidities of Covid 19.

        I posit the significant difference in Covid spread & outcomes between Japan and other East Asian nations vs the US has more to do with the obesity rate than mask wearing. Also, prior to Covid, although Japanese people would wear masks in public, it was limited to those who were already sick. Not the general population. Having a virus, and being sick are two different things. Humans are exposed to countless bacteria and viruses on the daily basis. We are not always sick.

        The research on the efficacy of mask wearing is not out. I agree that in most cases wearing a mask doesn’t hurt. Its just not the full proof solution people are making it out to be. Wearing masks is not going to prevent you or anyone else from being exposed to or contracting the disease. Especially since the general population are not capable of appropriately wearing masks consistently.

        Ex: You adjusted your mask with your hand so that it covers your nose because it slipped down, boom you could have spread Covid from you hand to your mask.

        And lastly, as if on cue, you proved Brandi’s point about just mentioning masks online will bring out the virtue signalers.

        Hope you stay safe and educate yourself on all the aspects of the pandemic. Single factor analysis is very easy to do, but is generally useless for policy and personal decision making.

      2. There is still no solid scientific proof that masks do anything other that encourage people to forgo measures that have been proven, such as not standing shoulder to shoulder next to me and washing your hands thoroughly. By scientific proof I mean large long-term double-blinded studies. Everything else is inference and extrapolation. Japan has lower numbers because of masks? Correlation does not imply causation. Who’s the a$$?

      3. You tell him I am 1 of those grandmas that would like to spend a few more years with my family so I will wear my mask and ask anyone near me to do the same

    3. Brandi. You must be young and healthy. I’m glad you are not in an at risk category. I am going to be 70 next April. I have great friends and a lot more living to do. I am doing 6 zoom exercise classes every week to stay strong. I had a trip to Alaska planned with my sister who is 4 1/2 years older. My sister has a mild case of emphysema. I am hoping you will choose to wear a mask to protect us as we would probably fare worse than you. You have the freedom to choose to care for your fellow human beings who are at a higher risk.

  68. Johns Hopkins finally updated their numbers for Florida to more accurately reflect positivity. They now show the Florida 5% positivity rate correctly.

      1. From that link:

        *****
        “The count for this metric is incremented up by one for each day on which an individual person is tested, no matter how many specimens are collected from that person on that day. If an individual person is tested twice a day on three different days, this count will increment up by three.”
        *****

        I really don’t understand why they count anyone more than once. People who get COVID need a negative test before they can go back to work, so of course they are getting tested more than once. Some people get tested several times before finally getting the negative.

        Another example of “torture numbers long enough and they’ll admit to anything.”

    1. Rankings of example US states (some have statewide mask mandates)
      here:
      https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html

      a few examples
      Data points were last updated Oct. 31. Data for positivity rates and tests are seven-day moving averages. New cases are daily counts as reported by state and the District of Columbia. The information cited is from the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center. States are arranged in descending order of test positivity rates.

      Vermont: 0.5%
      New York: 1.5%
      California: 3.1%
      West Virginia: 4.4%
      South Dakota: 47%
      Alabama: 20.9%

      1. Take whatever NY, NJ, and Conn are reporting with a grain of salt. We all know millions of people actually had the virus in the Spring, just couldn’t be tested at that time unless they were sick enough to go to the hospital – which well over 95% of people that test positive never request hospitalization. The antibody studies conducted in New Rochelle and Brooklyn show this. This means there are very few people left to catch it at this point. If they officially reported on antibodies, that would be a completely different story.

        Wisconsin has had a mask mandate since the beginning and now has a positivity rate between 15 and 20% per Johns Hopkins – 7-day moving average of 13.7%. Maybe they should wear two masks in case the first one falls off.

        Finally Johns Hopkins got onboard with Florida’s reporting and is now showing a 7-day moving average of 5.2% for Florida. This is with pretty much everything fully opened now, unlike California. I’ll take Florida’s policies hands-down over Cali. We don’t have people leaving the State in droves due to Emperor Newsom.

      2. Death rates per 100,000:

        Worst:
        New Jersey – 184
        New York – 172
        Massachusetts – 144
        Connecticut – 129

        Best:
        Vermont – 9
        Maine – 11
        Alaska – 11
        Wyoming – 15

        Noted:
        South Dakota – 46
        Alabama – 59

        Hard to claim New York did well when the only stat that matters contradicts that claim so strongly.

      3. Wednesday evening, CDCP reported that Florida had an accumulative 938,830 “cases”, 4.408% of population, 18,157 fatalities, 0.085% of population, fatalities/infected rate 1.934%…(unless I made a typo). Panic, everyone!!!

        One reporter noted that a high percentage of fatalities have been among people expected to die within 6 months if SARS-cov-2 never existed. And then there was the Croatian who fell off the ladder, hit his head, bleeding between brain & membrane, arteriosclerosis… an obvious case of Wuhan the MEs say.

  69. Can we get a graph that shows positivity rate and Rate of deaths? I want to compare on the same graph a trend line showing the positive cases with negative outcomes. In other words, I’m hoping it will show that when cases are trending up, hospitalizations and deaths are holding flat or trending down. The bar charts show it but they are isolated so I would like to see the charts combined

  70. To those who continue to question masks, here is a definitive study, a “natural experiment,” recently summary of Kansas citizens in counties with vs without mask mandates. I suggest that those of you who are not scientists (and do not know what the simple meaning of p-value is, for instance) please refrain from stating unsubstantiated statements such as many in this thread. Examples: The virus will be no longer a problem on Nov 4. That is simply untrue. In order for someone to really believe that, one would have to believe all counties in the entire U.S. would be “in on the conspiracy,” not to mention the co-conspirators in all of Europe. Why do you think the Canadian case per capita is >3X lower than ours (5.3/100K CAN vs US 15.5/100K)? Are Canadians NOT in on the “liberal” conspiracy? Here is an excellent summary of the data from multiple countries, where Canada clearly has done so much better than U.S. as a whole. Obviously their cold weather is like our Wisconsin weather. Wisconsin is now under major crisis, such that they had to open a field hospital.

    What would you say to the 34-yo lady who has double pneumonia and is happy to have received care in that field hospital?
    https://www.nbc15.com/2020/10/26/coronavirus-patient-at-wisconsin-field-hospital-say-care-is-high-quality/

    Wisconsin opened an alternative care facility for COVID-19 patients Oct. 14 as COVID-19 hospitalizations tripled statewide over the last month:
    https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/wisconsin-hospitals-on-the-brink-as-field-hospital-opens-6-notes.html

    Here is an article in FORBES, a right-leaning publication, showing how well Canada does:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#4646651867a2

    Proof that I am not pushing only “left wing” publications for this argument:
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/forbes/

    Do you notice an uptick in the number of sirens going through your neighborhoods? Those are people struggling for breath being carted off to the hospital, where they will lay alone in their hospital beds. And no, hospitals and doctors offices are NOT inflating covid numbers simply to get more money. Here is a full explanation for why this is a flat out lie (and really hard to believe that people would fall for this, again thinking that there is a massive conspiracy underfoot to make the current administration “look bad.”
    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/27/donald-trump/trump-wrong-claim-us-padding-covid-19-stats/

    Regarding “SARS-cov-2 was weaponized. Li Meng Yan, M.D. who allegedly worked there, said in September interviews that it was” This has been disproven WITHOUT a doubt. This “Dr. Yan” did not publish a real scientific journal article. Here are several studies (again published by real scientists who use their real names, that show the lineage of the virus:

    (Ironically enough, we are so good at genomics sequencing these days, with subsequent bioinformatics analyses, that we can even trace the different strains and how they got spread around in this country. The vast majority of those that killed the New Yorkers in the early days actually were infected by viruses coming in from Europe:
    https://asm.org/COVID/COVID-19-Research-Registry/Basic-Virology#evolutions
    (scroll to the bottom of the page for a list of real scientific publications, under “Evolution & Phylogenetics”)
    NY strains study (one of several):
    Introductions and early spread of SARS-CoV-2 in the New York City area
    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6501/297

    Regarding this one: “All of this mask wearing is going to cause people to get deathly ill from a cold because you’re not building your immunity.” You need to read a basic immunology text book, my friend. Immunity is very specific. Although some common colds are caused by coronaviruses, this particular virus is significantly different so that who do contract COVID will have no immunity against colds or other similar viruses. I can point to several places. Here is a basic immuno lesson:
    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-human-body-systems/hs-the-immune-system/a/hs-the-immune-system-review
    Again, this person is believing Dr. Scott Atlas and his push for herd immunity which has been propogated throughout this state. Please do not state “examples” of (n=1) people who normally wear masks and do not normally wear masks, and subsequent anecdotal “evidence.” Again n=1. True, the regular masks (not N95) do not protect you from contracting it. The masks are meant for all to wear, to prevent you from spreading it. Most of us do not have the luxury of wearing N95 masks out in public. (expensive and hard to find). If I am wearing a mask in Publix, but a maskless person comes near me and expels droplets in my area, of course I could get it. That is why it is so frustrating that people refuse to wear masks.

    What about this one: “There is no hiding from it, people are going to get it, just need to protect the vulnerable.” That is PROMOTING HERD IMMUNITY. (thanks to Dr. Scott Atlas, America’s favorite MRI Radiologist, who has been “selected” by the WH since he is the only person who agrees with opening everything up, with no mask wearing and no physical distancing. All well and good, except the “vulnerable” cannot be completely isolated from the young and the reckless who are getting the disease. Ever try to go to the grocery store and avoid coming near the maskless? Impossible. The young and the reckless are keeping us trapped in our houses.

    From the Mayo Clinic: “there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn’t yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.

    Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.”
    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

    (Simple, just calculate it — to get to 70% of the population, you would have to allow 0.6*325,000,000 = 195,000,000 people to get it. Of those, how many will die? Let’s be generous and err on the low side of death rates shown on this page:
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

    If you push for this natural herd immunity “strategy,” then 195,000,000 people in US contract it, and again if you are using the *low end* of the confirmed death rates:
    0.005*195,000,000 = 975,000 will die.

    If you use the median (again see chart in page jhu.edu/data):
    0.02**195,000,000 = 3,900,000 will die.

    (And please, don’t use that n=1 instance where someone died on a motorcycle but they were counted as covid death. Sometimes overwhelmed hospitals and Dr. offices make mistakes, when they are holding the hands of those dying alone, or holding up phones for last face time with family members….sorry cannot help being snarky.)

    Here’s more info to prove that you would have to have 60-70% get it to achieve natural herd immunity:
    https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwise/what-is-covid-19-coronavirus-herd-immunity-when-will-we-achieve-herd-immunity.h00-159383523.html

    And don’t forget about long-term damage to survivor’s hearts, eyes, etc. since don’t forget this is a vascular disease that causes irreparable damage that will stay with them for the rest of their lives:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7467860/

    And about this: “The risk of contagion in such places is so low as to make wearing a mask not necessary. And remember, exposure does not mean contagion. Per the CDC, contagion requires extended exposure to a symptomatic person in close proximity.” *Incorrect.* Even brief encounters will result in contracting the virus. The CDC updated its guidelines based on several studies, including this one:
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6943e1.htm
    And here (again from a scientific publication, but this one is written for the lay person):
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

    Re: “Over 2.8M Americans die every year” — YES but we can PREVENT the COVID deaths. Every rational-thinking, logical person who has enough sense to read more than Facebook “news” knows that the actual COVID deaths are WAY underestimated. COVID deaths (actual documented ones) are the third leading cause of death. We are losing K-12 bus drivers, custodians, and cafeteria workers (not to count the teachers) from being in contact with asymptomatic maskless students on buses.

    Last, “If you are old or health compromised stay home. Everyone personally knows their health situation. We live in America- we have rights and freedoms….” We do not have freedoms to infect others. That would be akin to “we have our freedom to drive drunk. If you are afraid of being in a car accident with a drunk driver, then stay off the roads.” Old and compromised are not living in bubbles. We unfortunately come into contact with those maskless “free folks” who are infected but are presymptomatic, or those very young who are bearing high viral loads and still perhaps remain asymptomatic. Noone lives in a bubble. All people need to wear masks to prevent themselves from infecting others.

    This is the Kansas study: https://ipsr.ku.edu/covid19/images/MaskMandateUpdate.pdf

    1. Thank you Doctor. Very long winded response quoting some generic media articles. Without requiring a list of articles, you should take a present look at an entire country called Sweden. I would suggest reading the current Economist article on it. . . . Their story rebukes every statement you made.

    2. “Do you notice an uptick in the number of sirens going through your neighborhoods? Those are people struggling for breath being carted off to the hospital, where they will lay alone in their hospital beds.”

      THAT. Is reckless fear mongering, and it’s a shame because it undermines everything else you said.

      1. Well, is it true, or not, that folks who are hospitalized are alone, with only nurses and other hospital personnel there to comfort them? I personally have been separated from my 84-yo father with cancer, and the only time I see him is through phone “face time” (actually the android version, “video call”) when the hospice nurse has time to do a video call. In our neighborhood (we purchased this house last year, March), we never heard sirens. Our neighborhood is between the hospital and a major hotspot (a small town that has had mask burning ceremonies and where people successfully forced the town council to drop a mask mandate). Whereas between March 2019 and March 2020, we would hear a siren on average 1X per month, we now hear them on a regular basis, at least 1X per every 2 days, usually 1-2X per day. Just stating the facts. And yes, it is scary, especially since those in power either to (a) hide the data, or (b) distort the data to morph the statistics to fit their political agendas.

      2. *”THAT. Is reckless fear mongering, and it’s a shame because it undermines everything else you said.”*

        … Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Nothing exposes a crackpot better than shameless demagoguery.

    3. A long post that is very unconvincing. France, Belgium, Netherlands, UK are reporting more cases than the entire U.S. The U.S. is now reporting less than half the cases per population as the E.U. The U.S. kept the curve manageably flat (which is what was prescribed from the beginning) and did so while having less than half the economic drop as E.U. Now much of Europe is back in lockdown.

      People can blame Trump but America is doing much better than other large nation or nation blocs.

      Don’t even look at South America where there are more deaths per capita and dramatically underreported numbers due to lack of testing resources and records. Canada is a very small population country that emerged from lockdown in the their mild summer; we will see their situation in January (Quebec province is back in lockdown, so they are not a success story even now). Whereas Americas outbreak was pronounced in the summer in the Sun Belt in indoor A/C weather.

    4. The answers always lie somewhere in the middle. While there is much to discuss in your article, I’ll just point out the herd immunity conversation. As a voracious reader of medical literature for over 2 decades, I’m very familiar with most aspects of delving into statistics as it relates to research. With herd immunity, those against seem to be dancing around the research on residual T-cell immunity, which may be present in up to 50% of the population. How else would you explain a sub-20% spread in households, where exposure almost absolutely had to occur? Have some residual T-cell immunity from exposure to other coronaviruses when the individual’s immune system tagged the antigen as a conserved segment of proteins would go a long way towards explaining this, and is supported by the research that has asked that question.

  71. TR – Can we get a set of graphs that covers from the start of this pandemic – so we get the context of these bar graphs? It’s hard to find graphs that go out beyond 3 months.

  72. Yesterday I went and early voted. And, no exaggeration, this happened:

    A couple came in behind me without masks. A woman on line, with a walker, yelled out, “Go out and put on a fucking mask.”

    And the guy said, “No, no, I’m not.”

    Then the woman said to another guy, “And you put your mask up over your nose. That’s where all the germs are. I’m a nurse, I know. I see all the dead bodies.”

    So the guy said, “I’m not wearing it right? Then I’ll take it off.” And he took it off.

    Then the woman said, “Then stay away from me, you germy slobs.”

    Sigh.

    1. The case watching is maddening. There were only 2100 cases the day before, noone talks about that. The US has been doing > 1M tests per day for the past week or so, a couple times it was 1.2M. The positivity rate is in the same range as it’s been for months, 7-day moving average is 5.7%. Once again, more fear mongering, not an actual surge other than a few localized areas in Wisconsin and Illinois. Sooner or later people are going to understand how math works. For sure the virus is here, and has spread far and wide. There is no hiding from it, people are going to get it, just need to protect the vulnerable. Masks are not effective, but wear one if it makes you feel better. Lockdowns do more harm than good. It would be nice if Democrats would stop pushing back on the vaccine, because we know there are only two ways to mitigate the virus at this point. 1.) natural immunity, 2.) immunity by vaccine

      1. I have to tell that I laughed a bit when you said that sooner or later people are going to understand how math works…….are ya sure about that? :} But I’m totally with you on the lack of an actual surge. Before this year whenever the media was “catatrophising” I just assumed that most people really didn’t believe it and people just moved on. This year I realized I was wrong about that. For example, I live in Florida so whenever they would go on about a hurricane that was supposed to hit I figured most people realized the real risks and if they are in an evacuation area they most likely left the area. Now I realize I’m wrong about that and people take them literally and are being scared to death. I’d love the media to find the middle and report on things factually.

        I would disagree that masks do not work. There is mounting evidence that while the virus is still spreading people are not getting as sick…which amounts to a vaccine like effect for whatever period of time the disease will allow immunity. Before now there was no way to ethically test if masks work for this type of virus…now we are getting real world evidence because we have no choice.

        1. Debi, I would be willing to bend a bit on the mask thing if we all could agree that most of the cases are coming from family members under the same roof and people hanging out in a bar for hours. We know people are not wearing masks in their own home, and not when they are seated at the bar, so wearing a mask at Publix or Home Depot when you might be in close contact with someone for maybe a minute or two is not how this thing spreads – on the CDC website, not my opinion. I do agree that people are not getting as sick now, but that is a function of two things, 1.) the viral load which comes back to how long you were in close contact with someone that has it. Obviously being under the same roof, or even in the same bed, is going to expose you to a much higher viral load. 2.) we’ve learned a lot in 7 months, and there are better treatments and strategies as my wife (RN) has seen first hand.

      2. We know that the most likely spread of virus is through droplets in the air. Aerosols spread it as well but to a slightly lesser extent. For all people who say masks are ineffective or don’t work please try this at home. Take a sip of water and then hold a sheet of paper 6 inches from your face and cough with the water still in you mouth. Then put on your mask and do the same again. Compare how much water hits the paper.

        I understand wearing masks is not great but it is much better than being locked down.

        1. It’s not so much whether masks are effective, but rather whether they make a significant difference in low risk areas such as shopping in a store. The risk of contagion in such places is so low as to make wearing a mask not necessary. And remember, exposure does not mean contagion. Per the CDC, contagion requires extended exposure to a symptomatic person in close proximity. 🙂

        2. A better analogy is cigarette smoke. The particles are considerably larger than viruses so masking should be more effective for cigarette smoke. Consider an enclosed area with smokers puffing away: do you think that having them wear a mask, or you, the victim, having a mask, will make any difference? Do you think that you will not smell the smoke? Surgical or cloth masks will not protect you. Maybe they make people feel better??

      3. Well said. We all need to take a slow deep breath and lower the anxiety level that the MSM and Democrats keep trying to pump up.

    2. Why do so many people who claim to not care about the virus or say it isn’t that bad come on here and comment. Seems odd, “if you don’t car.”

    3. The same thing happened to us when we early voted. The young guy behind us didn’t have on a mask. It was almost an hour wait, mostly outside. He was the only one I observed with no mask. I got him to back away from us pretty quickly though. I coughed loudly (in my mask) several times and he kept his distance. Lol

  73. 10/22/2020 – So we have 5,489 new cases today. However, if you look into the data you will see that Florida conducted 97,984 tests yesterday. We have been averaging about 400,000 tests a week statewide. So I am supposed to believe that suddenly 97 thousand plus people decided to get tested yesterday? Seems fishy to me. Probably another data dump.

    1. To JFK. On the same page where the statistics are reported in between the statistical charts if you will look and read them they say things such as when there is an extraordinary number such as 97,000 that means that the day before the test weren’t reported so that day includes two days worth of tests so if you would read the rest of it instead of just peeking at the chart and coming to erroneous conclusions you would understand that it’s basically correct they say 44,000 one day and skip a day and then 97,000 the next day then that means it was about 44,000 those two days. So just read everything that’s very important in a statistical analysis.

    2. Test reporting will vary for a few reasons. 1) test laboratories reporting may be delayed so the date of reporting is not necessarily the day they were tested. 2) testing for people without symptoms is voluntary; you will see that testing is always down on weekends; 3) when tests results are submitted, they must be validated and that could cause a delay; 4) as in any reporting, looking at a single day will be misleading, which is why they report trends and and 7 day rolling averages. Data collection, validation and reporting at the volume that covid requires is a challenging exercise.

  74. Dear Journal, the hospitalization chart is missing, and a duplicate of the fatality rate is in its place. Thank you for this documentary work though, it is very precious.

  75. I don’t whether SARS-cov-2 was weaponized. Li Meng Yan, M.D. who allegedly worked there, said in September interviews that it was, with at least 3 genetic modifications, mainly in the “spikes” to make it a more effective cell attacker. Might be blowing smoke or not.

    Many people have been doing searches, reading through journal & pop articles. We’ve studied photos of people sneezing with & without masks. We’ve read of durations of infectiousness on various surfaces in normal light, under UVA, UVB, & UVC. We’ve read that peroxide (3%+) & ethanol (50%-70%) & isopropanol (70%) & chlorine are effective disinfectants for it but benzalkonium chloride not so much…that sometimes a higher percentage is less effective because it evaporates too quickly. We’ve seen the graphs, much like those here at TR, of new cases per day or week, comparing the shapes for Sweden, Denmark…

    We’ve been tracking the stats. We were told (I heard it on radio) that effective herd immunity would only be reached after 60% or more of the population had been infected or vaccinated. Months back, a survey test sweep reported about 21%+ of NYC residents were probably infected. After a lot of hysteria, CDCP is now saying only 7% of those tested are positive, only 2.46% of the USA population has been infected, 0.066% of USA population has death attributed (correctly or not) to ncov. Worldwide 0.524% infected, 0.015% death attributed to betacoronavirus. But the graphs seem to suggest some degree of herd immunity already. I know of no hospitals overwhelmed. Masks mostly work, eye-glasses mostly work, washing hands mostly works…nothing’s perfect.

    (I am not a doctor, not an epidemiologist. My mother & grandmother were nurses — surgery, geriatric… Several of my old school friends are docs, nurses or retired from same. I have done some microbiology lab work in middle school & uni, and read some biochem, microbiology, & a terrifying pathophysiology text reminiscent of F. Paul Wilson, Michael Crichton & … Mira Grant fiction.)

    I think the media has been drumming up hysteria all along from ignorance or political motives. But, as with arms, we need to respect the Wuhan & take reasonable precautions. Individuals differ over what’s reasonable. That’s part of what makes USA freedom great.

    1. We shouldn’t be surprised that those who don’t fear getting covid would get tired of wearing masks for the 37% at high risk of getting covid badly. After all, we all care #1 about taking care of ourselves primarily. Nothing wrong with that, because it’s about self-survival. But please, don’t get within 20 feet of those wearing masks, since they only stop the larger droplets, and a sneeze or cough can go 19 feet unaided by blowing ac or heat blowers.

  76. It is nature-have you heard of survival of the fittest? If you are old or health compromised stay home. Everyone personally knows their health situation. We live in America- we have rights and freedoms or at least we use to. That’s why I thank God everyday I was born here and call this great country home. I am older and don’t go out except when absolutely necessary. I wear a mask and wish others would too but if they don’t I avoid them-it is their right. This won’t last forever- be smart, be patient and quit blaming others. Take responsibility for your own safety. This isn’t the first pandemic and sadly face it, it won’t be the last.I would be more afraid of losing my freedoms than the pandemic. Studies show people wearing masks get COVID as well.

    1. Great points Susan, it’s amazing how only one cause of death seems to matter right now in the US, most of the other Countries have stopped reporting with the level of detail we do. They certainly aren’t going out of their way to code a death “COVID-related” when it’s borderline at best – most of the time they don’t do a PCR test beforehand. The average age of a COVID-related death, if you even believe the numbers, is 78, actually 79 in Florida per the FDOH. The average life expectancy of an American is 78.4.

      There is always going to be that one off story about a perfectly healthy 30 year old dying from COVID-related causes. Over 2.8M Americans die every year, a lot of them were perfectly healthy, but they died in a car accident, suicide, brain aneurism, rare mosquito-borne illness, snake bite, etc. I remember hearing about this perfectly healthy 16-year old dying in Florida from COVID. Then you find out he weighed 300 pounds and had a blood-glucose level of 1000. I checked with my wife who is a RN and she agreed that kid was not perfectly healthy, not by a long shot. Problem is, parents probably never went to a Doctor so in their minds their kid was perfectly healthy, so keep feeding him fast food.

      Time for Americans to wake up and take better care of their health and not penalize those who have been taking care of themselves all along. We’re making it worse and creating more far-reaching mental health issues, not just for the elderly, but our kids as well. My daughter is being treated like a leper in her high school so I’m THAT close to keeping her home because it’s creating more problems sending her in with all these protocols designed to keep the selfish Teacher’s Union safe.

    2. susan,

      while one appreciates your upbeat and accepting attitude, your acceptance of survival of the fittest could easily been seen as accepting eugenics and accepting others “freedumb” to go maskless as inviting their abuse of the social contract and validating their potential to harm you.

      having said that, for effect and reflection, dont believe those were your intended meanings.

      society and the social contract are often in direct conflict with the “natural” concept of survival of the fittest. in truth our society is all about the survival of the “un-fittest”. we dont leave babies with deformities or down-syndrome out the cold, we dont ask the old to go off and die (ok arguably some of us do), once their no longer producing. Do you think special needs programs or behavioral therapy or any kind of medicine for that matter is “survival of the fittest?”

      its not freedom to go maskless during a pandemic, particularly when a high percentage of people infected are aysmptomatic or presymptomatic. think of them as THOUSANDS of typhoid marys (though in fairness to mary its not been established clearly that she was as depicted)

      given that many “carriers” have lasting lung and heart damage, though admittedly not established as long term or permanent, their long term health impacts are still unknown. partly because long term studies of any mild respiratory illness have not really been studied.

      back to the social contract, it is VRY reasonable to expect others to reciprocate your masking particularly when its the law. And its well within the governments purview to require the citizenry to adhere to legal mandates based on best practices for preventing/reducing the spread of deadly pathogens.

      while its great and preferable when people voluntarily adhere to recommendations to protect themselves and their fellow citizens. when they don’t and disease spreads beyond control harsh legal enforcement is not only reasonable but demanded. sadly it will likely come to that, mostly because ignorance and misinformation.

      freedom is not free, part of the cost is adhering to law. freedom as some see it, in opposition to the laws that dont suit them and in line with disdain for the social contract, is anarchy. in fairness, since the most recent “law and order” government seems to feel anarchy and chaos are its guide, its not really surprising that a good portion of the nation is running around doing their best “cartman impression”…”i do what i want”

      basically, its not reasonable for wanna be sovereign citizens to act in abeyance of reality putting the health and safety of others at risk. so no, you really shouldn’t just accept thats its ok or normal for people to act with disregard for the safety and health of yourself and others, because even if you avoid them its just a couple links in the epidemiological chain back to you or someone you care about .

      applauding your live and let live vibe, but also saying, while we can and sometimes should make allowances for others eccentricities, just not when it impacts the health and safety of the citizenry as a whole as it does in this case.

      1. It is inarguable to say wearing masks/protective screens is the right thing to do. It’s safe, it’s considerate, it’s comforting, the list of good things goes on and on. There is no argument against it.

        But that still won’t make everyone do it, and the current pushback on those who don’t is not helping anything. “Non-maskers” will only dig in deeper when they’re being called selfish and harmful to the wiser, better “maskers”.

        We all know that ridiculing and demeaning is not the way to get good results from people, yet it’s being done anyway. Then communication breaks down, and people are just talking through each other. I think that’s where we are in this country when it comes to the mask debate.

        To your “current government” chaos and anarchy point, surely you’re talking about the Democrats who are applauding the anarchists who are creating chaos in their cities?

      2. There is no law saying you have to wear masks. Businesses and some states claim to mandate masks but you can’t just make something a law because you want to, it’s unconstitutional. Masks are not full proof. I’ve known a few people personally who have had COVID. 1 couple did not wear a mask. He had some achiness and fatigue. She was asymptomatic. Another couple wore their mask anywhere they went. They went very few places and if they did they sanitized their hands before and after and of course hand washing. They both got it. She was sick with vomiting, lost sense of taste and smell, fatigue. He was asymptomatic. My son works for a gym. Back in May his girlfriend felt sick at work. Before she left to go home they hugged, touching faces with no masks. She was sick with fever and fatigue for about 3 days and then worked out and caused her to throw up but she was fine after about a week. My son was asymptomatic and he was living with us. None of us either got it or we were asymptomatic.

        We are all either going to get it or throw it off. Yes people will die but guess what none of us are getting out of here alive. This country needs to get healthier but it’s a choice. All of this mask wearing is going to cause people to get deathly ill from a cold because you’re not building your immunity.

        Yes it’s scary because no one knows if they will have major symptoms or none. We should never have shut down the economy. The cure cannot be worse than the virus and it has been. They have children, who are the very least susceptible wearing masks. That’s crazy. People are working in these things for 8 to 10 hours. It’s all about fear. They can’t even count numbers correctly. Die in a car accident but you test positive, it’s a COVID death. The media lies about everything.

        I trust in God. I pray for protection but if I get it, I know He is with me through it. If He takes me home that’s a win. You realize they will never want you to stop wearing masks. They have you where they want you in fear and following like sheep. It will be wear your mask, there might be one person out there that has COVID and it could spread into an epidemic again. So as they put it this will be the new normal.

    3. not as many people wearing masks get it as those who don’t. And they don’t spread it as much as the non-maskers, since the masks help contain and block the larger droplets.

      1. AND local communities and states have every right to mandate mask wearing. It is NOT unconstitutional. They can write a law and you can be fined for transgressing. The Supreme Court will back them up. If you don’t believe me try walking around naked and see how long before you get arrested.

  77. I personally know 3 younger coworkers that contracted Covid at work. 1 in his 30s passed away 1 in his 30s was sick for over 2 weeks and 1 in his 50s sick for over 3 weeks and needed hospitalization. Even those that recovered still have lingering effects after months of being negative.

  78. My experience. I personally knew two people, ages 19 and 46, who died. I have had two staff members who tested positive, but like a lot of others the symptoms were mild. They are young, mid 20’s. My brother in-law, a firefighter, just tested positive a few days ago, and my sister in-law tested positive two days ago. So far, so good.

    You should buy a lottery ticket. The odds of knowing personally persons ages 19 and 49 who were fatalities are approximately 1:17,563,421

  79. My experience. I personally knew two people, ages 19 and 46, who died. I have had two staff members who tested positive, but like a lot of others the symptoms were mild. They are young, mid 20’s. My brother in-law, a firefighter, just tested positive a few days ago, and my sister in-law tested positive two days ago. So far, so good.
    After 7 months, I’m bringing my staff back to the office two days a week beginning Monday. Because this virus is so unpredictable, they will be required to wear masks, distance and follow other procedures. No exceptions. I never want to feel that a member of my staff, or the people they are in contact with outside of work, get sick or worse because I didn’t take precautions and require what I could.

  80. I am 46 and tested positive for Covid in August. I had minor flu like symptoms and a light cough. My youngest child had no symptoms and oldest lost taste for a few days but no other symptoms (both teens). My wife (also my age) had a cough for a week. We all tested positive.

    This was our experience.

  81. Let’s give our personal experiences with Covid. Meaning, people we really know, not my boss’s mother, or my best friend’s brother’s friend type of stuff. People we have spent time with a few times a year for at least a few years.

    My experience is I know 4 people who had Covid. Ages 63 to 89. Each one ended up having zero effect on them after 2 weeks of diagnosis. So, what do 4 zeros add up to? One big, fat zero.

    1. They were lucky. I do believe the virus has changed though. I supposedly had covid earlier in the year and was extremely ill. It started with a high fever, cough, nausea and diarrhea. I went to the ER and said I tested negative for seasonal flu. The next week I went back with being short of breath. My oxygen levels were in the mid 80’s, I had pneumonia and a massive pulmonary embolism. I was airlifted to a larger hospital for a special clot busting technique. I was in the hospital for five days. Covid wasn’t being tested for at that time. I left the hospital with an enlarged heart and breathing issues. My cardiologist said I most likely had covid because of my symptoms and being negative for flu. At age 63 I feel blessed that I had great health care and got through it. Prior to getting sick I was at a theme park for several days where I probably was exposed. So to issue a blanket statement that no one gets it or gets through it easily is a huge disservice. I still have issues with stamina months later. I’m not saying we should hide in the basement but we shouldn’t ridicule those who take this serious and want to protect themselves and others. Stay well everyone.

      1. I am not issuing a blanket statement. I issued my experience and I was quite clear in asking honestly for others’ experiences in an effort to understand the fear.

        I appreciate your sharing, as that is exactly what I’m looking for. I want to understand why this virus continues to be so in the forefront, while I have not personally seen why.

        I do have a relative who was hospitalized in early February with breathing issues and low oxygen levels and tested negative for everything, was given steroids and sent home with an asthma inhaler which has never been used, and has since tested negative for Covid antibodies.

        I just think there is so much we don’t know, and the fear-mongering is not right.

        So, anyone have any other other experiences?

        1. Thank you for your response. I didn’t mean to come off as a fear monger. I believe the msm has done a huge disservice about this virus scaring everyone. The emotional damage done by the fear is just as bad as the virus if not worst. Instead of shutting down and cowering we perhaps should have gone to mask wearing sooner. I go out and about living my life taking precautions.

      2. In 2008 I almost died of the flu, at the age of 50, but I didn’t.
        On September 27, 2020 my 88 year old mother died of a massive brain bleed, she also tested positive for COVID 19, her death was listed as COVID even though no one knew she had it until she was admitted to the hospital from her assisted living facility, she had no symptoms and no one else in the facility has tested positive, so excuse me but it’s no worse than the flu that killed far more!!!!!!!!

        1. I almost died several times in my youth. What are the odds?

          Friday, CDCP reported the odds of getting the Wuhan in Florida at 3.682% aggregate, paying no attention to age, etc., & 0.078% of the Florida population have had the Wuhan attributed as cause of death, of those infected, 0.212% have died from it.

          I could understand the fuss, masks, hysteria, etc., if the infection rate were 65%, 75%, 80%, and if 30%, 40%, 50% of population had died from it. It’s not like USA cities have never struggled through such epidemics.

          They also started splitting out NYC from NY outside NYC, with the city being considerably worse. They should also report the whole state. Ditto for Florida, Miami-Dade. I like that TR has been tracking the county.

          Early on, in survey testing, NYC was up over 21% positive for infection; now they are reporting considerably lower rates. There are some questions about PCR amplification in later tests. Is 4x sufficient (higher risk of false negative), 40x too much (higher risk of false positive)? There is some range of exposure that healthy immune systems shrug off without cranking up, and a different range for hyper immune systems, & another for those impaired, e.g. from transplant rejection suppressors.

          At least the docs are using something resembling the scientific method to improve the treatment regimes.

    2. My wife’s uncle, very smart/educated, died from Covid at age 92. 2 weeks ago. He was living in an ALF in PA, no family visitations since March. Family has shared a January 2020 video where he describes his Korean War service in the Air Force. No sign of any mental decline in 1/2020. Great American Success Story cut short by the WuFlu, IMO.

    3. I know about 15 people who have had covid. Most of them are young service workers – 25 to 35. For all but one of these, it varied between almost no symptoms (fever and/or aches, might have never known except for testing when fellow employees took ill) to a severe flu. One was very ill and took over two weeks to recover, most were less than a week.

      I also know two other individuals, one a 45yo man and his 70yo mother. He is somewhat overweight, she had a stroke a couple of years ago. They both developed pneumonia and were admitted to the hospital, quickly being transferred to icu. She passed away, he slowly recovered. She was admittedly not in perfect health, but she was unlikely to die this summer had she not been infected. I’m still grateful we did not lose him.

      Anyway, my personal odds look like ~6% compared to your zero percent. Obviously, the actual numbers lie somewhere in between.

      FWIW, I work in a lab and have regular contact with medical staff who can’t possibly avoid contact with infected individuals entirely. I have not been within several yards of another unmasked human in over six months. I am lonely and frustrated, but as of yet I am healthy – as are the relatives I can only contact and try to help support via phones and internet. I will continue this as long as I must, but I sure hope we are closer to the end than the beginning.

      1. I am so sorry that you have been put in such a place of fear. I am 58 and have been working ever since this has started. Out in the public every day and I know no one that has had this and I continue to live my life as I have always done. The only difference is I wear a mask. The N95 that is the only ones that really works. All other masks give people a false sense of security and most likely cause people to get infected because they think they have protection but don’t. You need to go out and live life it is the only life you have.

    4. My 85 y/o mother had all the symptoms a few weeks ago but tested negative. She recovered after about a week. Thirty-something nephew got symptoms a week or so later and tested positive. He felt like crap for three or four days but was back 100% in less than a week. Because he’s a teacher he had to quarantine for 14 days.

      Wife or I fly nearly every weekend. We’ve been up and down the east coast from Florida to New Jersey a dozen times or more in the last several months.

      To my knowledge, none of my co-workers or their families/relatives have tested positive.

  82. Given the following premises:
    Masks and social distancing efforts work to reduce spread of pathogens.
    Covid-19 is a real threat to the life and health to you and your loved ones.
    Florida is a stand your ground state where you can use deadly force against reasonably perceived threats.
    Refusing to wear a mask puts individuals at risk; it is like brandishing a weapon.
    Conclusion:
    There will be some dead, maskless covidiots and the assailant will probably serve no jail time.
    Whether or not you believe masks work, others do and feel threatened when you don’t wear one. Gives new meaning to: Mask it or Casket.

      1. Edward, you sound Republican, and should face reality and truth here soon, but I’ll bet I’m too late. I’ll bet you even believe jet fuel can melt building structural steel thats been fire retardant treated. Building code since 1930 something. LEARN HOW TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!

    1. We’re too fearful to be free anymore. This is a perfect example and explains why we’re in the process of giving up on America and choosing Socialism.

    2. I think it’s odd that so many none mask supporters who don’t believe Covid-19 is a problem, check this site for statistics. I also believe people like Alex don’t do the pandemic any justice by posting ridiculous comments about people using stand your ground as justification to shoot none mask wearing people. It’s just silly. We must follow state and local laws and policies and when we don’t agree with those laws and policies for public and private places outside of our home because of safety concerns or impediments on our rights, we don’t participate in those places. Full disclosure, I believe this is an awful pandemic and we should all follow the CDC guidelines and we could quell it, but I also believe in laws and policies. So if people don’t want to wear a mask or social distance, I avoid them. I don’t dine at restaurants, but I don’t have a problem with people who choose to. We all make what we believe to be the best choices for ourselves. My choices have kept me healthy throughout this pandemic. Until we have FDA approved treatments and/or vaccines that significantly reduce the current percentage of getting seriously sick or dying, I will continue on my path. We should all choose our own path and respect each other’s choice, as long as it abides by the laws and policies within our cities, counties, and state.

      1. Yes follow the science. Every mask you buy tells you on the package that they do not protect you against the virus. Study from The WHO says 90 percent of the people that get the virus wear a mask and stay at home unless absolutely pessary to go out. I guess you think that if everyone wore a mask 100 percent would never get the virus. You need to think before you comment.

    3. My point was that it has been established that one merely needs to reasonably feel threatened in a stand your ground state to respond with deadly force. Whether or not you personally believe in the risk, it would be difficult to claim that others don’t. Your unmasked face can reasonably be conceived of as a gun (loaded or otherwise) and you can be infectious and not know it. A lawyer can feel free to chime in and show were I am misinterpreting the law. I welcome facts and I don’t own a gun (as I am not so fearful).

      We need a universal response to a virus that can/will affect us all. Masks and social distancing have been shown to work. Quarantines have worked for centuries. This is a come together opportunity that has become politicized. Your rights end when they interfere with mine. My right to life Trumps your right to go mask free. Calls for personal responsibility have failed. No one cares that God is watching and judging the harm brought by covidiots.

      Edward – I have a serious issue with people who would rather deny the current science and put others at risk of death. When I see people, I always wear a mask. Any time you interact with persons outside your household, you should too.

      Robert – We can be American and embrace what works in other countries. I would rather see more social programs that give Americans the foundation needed to have great careers and start business, etc. You can’t pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you never owned shoes.

      Jack – If scaring one more person to wear a mask and that reduces the spread to 20 more people, then it is worth it and any criticism that I receive. Maybe it made someone seriously consider the gravity of their choices. Also, it may allow Florida to revisit the stand your ground law and fix or repeal it.

      1. It should also be noted that If you know that you have been exposed and have reason to suspect you could be contagious and still go out and expose/endanger others you could possibly be personally sued by persons you infected. That goes for parents sending their kids to school and exposing other children and teachers when they have reason to suspect their child might be contagious. Bottom line keep your gun holstered and sue them. Threaten their wallet and I bet more will take their actions more seriously.

    1. We have been turned into communities where people can’t socialize, need to stay away from each other, can’t go to work because work has been shut down or, if you’re lucky, you work from home and have no in-person human contact.

      In New Jersey, everyone is encouraged to report social gatherings to the police. If you fly into New York or New Jersey from a state they consider a “danger”, you have to fill out a form giving your email, phone#, airline, flight# and seat#. As of now, there are over 30 states on that list. This is done under the umbrella of contact tracing.

      What next?

  83. Eventually, everyone will catch the China Bio-Weapon virus (take-19) It’s simply a matter of time and yes; “science”. The good news is… about 99.5% of us will pull through. The others will fall victim to their comorbidity conditions exasperated by the ChiRona.

    Wearing a mask to protect yourself against a viral infection, is like wearing a t-shirt to protect yourself against a bullet. Wear one if it makes you feel better about yourself, but don’t expect miracles and stop pretending it matters.

    The China Virus is now a full-blown political campaign strategy exploited by the Demunists and supported by the Media PACs, and no longer has any real applications or concerns for public health. Andy “Auschwitz” Cuomo sentenced thousands of innocent people to death due to his homicidal malfeasance, and the Demunists and their Media PACs praised his leadership… let that sink in a bit.

    … carry on… oh, and wash your hands often.

    1. I really liked the style and most of the content of this post. So much so, I copied and pasted into a local fb group saying I found it on a comments page elsewhere. Naturally, a philosophical opponent immediately responded to the post. “Offensive”. “Incorrect”. “involving Holocaust”. I guess it’s more powerful than I thought.

  84. A lot of discussion about masks and our response. Mask wearing is much more political here than in most other countries, though there are demonstrations all over the world.

    Found this info very interesting I think it shows that compared to most countries the US has learned least over time….

    https://www.axios.com/united-states-coronavirus-death-rate-a40eb02b-bf8c-4146-8ef2-3cfd6b22de5b.html

    We even lag behind Sweden. While everyone think they are going for heard immunity, gatherings of more than 50 people are banned indoors and outdoors. Compared to that our approach seems inadequate. Especially as we have examples shown on all news channels of large gatherings with most people not wearing masks. We should do something similar to limit groups of people.

    1. Did you even read the link that you posted? Directly from the source:

      “Yes, but: Death rates are not static, as this study proves, and outbreaks in several European countries have taken a turn for the worse lately.”

      Come back in 5 years and you will have your answers to who had the best approach. Spoiler alert — There is a very real chance that every country ends up similar regardless of approach. So in the meantime ask yourself how much freedom you are willing to give up and for how long?
      I have my answer already and it is no more than I have already lost, and I will start fighting for those back as well. Quality of life is important too!

      1. I am not sure how death rates increasing now changes the data? Going forward it will change.

        I do not want to give up my freedom and that is why I am concerned that there is so much fighting against masks and restrictions on numbers of people meeting. In Sweden, which is touted for going for herd immunity, They limit gatherings to 50 people indoors or out and are trying to enforce it. Here we ignore the easy things and fight on partisan lines against a force of nature rather than using common sense.

        Quality of life is hugely important hence the need to take steps to slow this spread until a vaccine is here. I am absolutely against lockdowns but as long as the example of super spreader events is in the public eye people will not stop meeting in large family/social groups which will be a problem.

        Unfortunately if you read the international press (not just the translations that are given in US news) while not a complete laughing stock they are shocked at what is going on over here.

        1. Mike, so sick of hearing how the US is the laughing stock for this or that from Europe of all places. Most of those countries were flat broke before COVID due to their Socialist policies, mainly due to healthcare and education. In any event, I just read a study done on the European nations pertaining to excess deaths. Most European countries have basically stopped reporting COVID-related deaths, partially because they aren’t testing as much to know if someone is positive before they died, and they certainly aren’t wasting test kits on people after they died – my India colleagues echoed that for their Country. The article also said England and others aren’t reporting because not everyone is reporting the same and some will look worse than others. Where have we heard this before. Instead, the only fair way is to look at excess deaths compared to previous years. While the US is around 11-12% excess deaths, not good, England, Wales, and Spain were at 37% for multiple months during the peak. This is why trying to judge our numbers against Europe, Russia, China, Iran, is absolutely futile and meaningless. The US Govt doesn’t control the news here, that’s for sure.

          Someone else said on this blog that we need to wait a few years for the dust settles to really evaluate each Country’s strategy, that is spot on.

        2. Taking a snapshot of the data at a point in time does not give you the slightest clue as to what the whole story is. It absolutely matters a ton if the death rates are rising again in Europe and ours are declining. Check the numbers again in 6 months .. and then a year , and then 2 years. At that point you will have some idea of what might have worked and what might not have (although you still won’t have the whole picture). There is no scientific evidence that we can ever stop a virus like this through any means other than herd immunity. A vaccine could potentially help get to herd immunity faster but it is not guaranteed that we can actually develop one at all (look at the failure rates for seasonal flu vaccines).
          It is not a problem for me if people keep meeting in groups and even in large numbers (and you can’t stop them as both sides are doing it!). By the way, I absolutely do not care what the international press thinks, in fact I am inclined to believe that if they think America is taking the wrong approach then we are on the right track.

          1. Herd immunity without mass vaccination is a fantasy. That is like saying Black Death achieved herd immunity for the population of Europe. This concept of which you and others speak is magical thinking cloaking in scientized language. Enough already. It has cause the suffering and death of too many already. And this new virus does not behave like the flu. It is explosive in the way that it spreads in concentrated loads in crowds and unventilated spaces and then overwhelms hospitals and clinics. Simple precautions such as making, distancing, hand-washing, and limiting crowds, and reducing the number of people in spaces that are not well-ventilated can slow the transmission rate down. These precautions are beneficial such that even if people do catch the virus, they are not afflicted with a high viral load of it, making survivability more likely.

    2. That article is a perfect example of “Torture numbers long enough and they will admit to anything.”

      It conveniently leaves out the countries that started spiking after May 10. They justified it by calling the countries they selected “peers”, by finding a commonality between them. It also gives no mention to the size of these countries vs. the US. The northeast part of the country, which is bigger than Italy, spiked in March/April and it has followed Italy’s coronavirus pattern. The part further south spiked later, in July/August, along with several other countries. That article is meaningless.

      The new thing in this country now is to put ourselves down and believe we are the laughingstock of the world. Well, anyone who laughs at people dying is really a nitwit, so why give it a second thought?

    1. Middle class private business will get back to normal. The professional gov’t employees and pajama crowd of private employers/employees who can afford to work from home, may never return. Fine. I drive the roads of Orlando every day. Somebody is doing something b/c the roads are very busy. Maybe they’re just driving to drug store to replenish their mask supply, but I think it looks like businesses are operating.

  85. Checking in 6 months and a day since my first post in this thread. There was a time when people could agree that running on wet slippery concrete by a swimming pool was a bad idea. Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians and Socialists. People who loved the President [Ike] and people who hated the President. When info came on a TV network about running on wet concrete by a swimming pool – the solution always seemed the same: “Don’t do it!”

    Actually, many of us had the experience of observing someone running on wet concrete by a swimming pool – and the frequent results. Have a great day and good luck!

    This post provides an interesting 6 month narrative of responses and arguments. However, none are very persuasive about anything! And I know as little about virus response methodology and expected results as I did 6 months ago.

  86. More fun with numbers…

    Of the 14 states now experiencing the highest Covid cases…9 of them do not have statewide mask mandates.

    The wearing of face masks is a proven deterrent to spreading the virus. But ONLY if everyone does it. A mask does not protect you. It protects everyone else around you. That is why states who understand this have mandated them. That is why municipalities that understand this have mandated it despite opposing governors.

    So when people decide that they don’t need to wear a mask they are really deciding the destiny of all of the people around them. Rather selfish I think.

    That is why you see the numbers go down when these mandates are followed.

    Miami-Dade county was the epicenter of Covid in FL with over 172,000 cases.

    On July 29th Miami-Dade hit its highest case rate of 5,564 per day. In response to this, the mayor imposed a mask mandate in mid July. By August 17 cases dropped to 713 per day. By Sept 6th cases per day dropped to 345 per day and has stayed that low through Oct 7.

    Coincidence?

    https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/florida/county/miami-dade-county

    1. Bunch of BS, case numbers are totally dependent upon amount of testing, period. The virus has already spread far and wide all over the Country, there is no hiding from it, either with a mask or under your bed. Broward County has had a mask mandate since April 10, yet, the cases and hospitalizations spiked in July/Aug and now in Sept/Oct have come down drastically. Did anything change? Yeah, we opened up more and went to Phase 2 and now Phase 3!. It’s called herd immunity and T-cells which is certainly the case in densely populated Miami-Dade, where Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunt/Cousins/Friends, all live together in the same 2000 sq ft house.

      Cases are supposedly surging across the Country, that’s what you’ll hear lately, but of course the lamestream media conveniently leaves out that we’ve performed over 1M tests per day on multiple days in the past week – it was previously 800K-900K per day. Guess what, if the positivity rate stays the same, which it has at 5%, doing more tests means more cases. DUH!

      Hospitalizations are WAY down from their peak, and deaths/day, is now hovering around 700/day – which is still questionable given only 6% are actually dying FROM COVID-19. Joe Biden famously said if we wore masks for the last 3 months of 2020 we could save 200K lives. Great math Sleepy Joe. Even if 1000/day were dying, which they are not, that would be 90K total more deaths by end of 2020. Hard to save 200K lives with masks when only 90K, worst case, are dying to begin with. What a fear mongering idiot. When you have nothing to run on, you just make stuff up to scare people.

      1. I appreciate the lengthy and thorough explanation of your opinion. Unfortunately your snarky use of the phrase “guess what?”, completely compromises the accuracy and credibility of everything you said. There’s too much guess work going in as it is. We certainly don’t need to be encouraging people to indulge in more.

      2. The models are quite clear. I would suggest you view the IHME models at this page:
        https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

        before touting falsehoods, IHME model actually, has UNDERESTIMATED in many parts of the country in the past 9 months. Some of those underestimations were due to the fact that some states refused to put in mask mandates. Also see this Kansas study:
        Kansas study: https://ipsr.ku.edu/covid19/images/MaskMandateUpdate.pdf

        The falsehood that “hospitalizations and deaths are WAY down” is based on these simple facts (follow the logic):

        At the beginning of the pandemic, the only people that qualified for COVID tests were the seriously ill, e.g. seeking admission into hospital, or hospitalized.

        Now, with more widespread testing, there are many more “low risk” groups (younger, for example) being tested.

        Do the math, as an example:
        In an example day in Mar 2020, 100 people short of breath seeking hospitalization get tested. 100 are tested. In this example, 75 are COVID-positive. (100% were hospitalized).

        In Sept 2020, after schools open, and contact tracing dictates that classmates, teachers, other staff are tested, after coming in contact with a COVID-positive student.
        So in this example, 100 people are tested on a particular day in Sept 2020.
        Of those 100, only 10 were seeking hospitalization care due to shortness of breath, etc. Of those 10, 6 are COVID-positive.

        The remaining 90 were simply getting tests because of contact tracing. Of those, let’s say that 20 were COVID-positive.

        So in this September example, total 26 are positive, but only 6 of them were hospitalized. So now in Sept, only 6% tested were hospitalized, and 23% of all COVID-positive tests were hospitalized (6 people / 26 total COVID-positive).

        Comparing % hospitalizations (and deaths) of COVID-positive individuals between March (100% hospitalized) and now (23% hospitalized) is blatant DATA MANIPULATION.

        It is not due to “improved therapeutics,” which is what current administration is touting as the reason for such better improved death/hospitalization rates.

        Current “therapeutics” are extremely expensive and not available to most of us “po folks” and certainly, we would not have access to the early in disease progress hospital admission plus triple-pronged approach to attack the disease (dexamethasone+MAb+remdesivir).

        The typical person would not be hospitalized that early in the disease progression and certainly could not afford (even if they got special access to MAb treatment).

        Here are more details on the treatment which we as tax payers provided to the person who wants us all to go out and get COVID and not let it dominate our lives:
        Experts said Trump’s helicopter rides to and from the hospital, diagnostic testing and imaging, experimental prescription drugs, a private suite, round-the-clock care, and additional personal protective equipment required for outings would cost at least hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions, of dollars.

        “I would not be surprised if it were to exceed $1m,” said Dr Bruce Y Lee, a professor at the City University of New York School of Public Health, whose recent work has estimated how much a course of Covid-19 treatment would cost an average American.

        “The majority of Americans don’t have the best treatments, whatever he said, because it’s about access,” said Lee. “The care that he received is available only to a very small minority of Americans.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/trump-covid-treatment-health-insurance

        Last, comparison of COVID death rates, from the beginning of the pandemic, summarized at this page:
        https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/102320_covidupdate.html

        (about halfway down the page, COVID deaths per 100,000)
        Adapted from Bilinski et al. COVID-19 Mortality in the US Compared with that of other countries. Data on COVID-19 deaths from February 13 to September 19, 2020 (n?=?198,589 US deaths). All mortality rates are statistically significantly different from the corresponding US mortality rates (p?<0.001).

        If you would like some basic information on what p-values and Confidence Intervals (CI) are, see these pages:

        https://www.khanacademy.org/math/ap-statistics/tests-significance-ap/idea-significance-tests/a/p-value-conclusions

        https://www.khanacademy.org/math/statistics-probability/confidence-intervals-one-sample

      1. BK, good point, and looking at Hawaii’s current Travel Requirements, besides the ridiculous mask nonsense, they are still locked down tighter than a drum for travel from the Mainland.

        “Beginning October 15, 2020, a pre-travel testing option will allow travelers an alternative to Hawaii’s 14-day quarantine”

        So they are still quarantining everyone that lands for 14 days, and you know it’s easier to enforce that considering everyone has to enter via plane right now. Can’t blame those nasty non mask-wearing tourists.

    2. Sorry Gary. The wearing of masks is not a “proven deterrent” to the spread of covid. So far we only have anecdotal inference; correlation does not imply causation. There isn’t a single evidence-based study proving the efficacy of masks (although one large study is underway in Denmark). This is not to say that the wearing of masks is a bad idea, or that the wearing of masks won’t eventually prove to be useful. But we should be precise when utilizing scientific language. And yes, I’m a physician.

      1. Glenn,

        No, I am not a physician.

        However, on July 14 the CDC did say,

        “We are not defenseless against COVID-19,” said CDC Director Dr. Robert R. Redfield. “Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus – particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities.”

        I consider “slow and stop” as a phrase that means “deterrent”

        Is your position is that you don’t trust the CDC?

    3. My post was in regards to masks. I feel it’s counterproductive to criticize the governmental agencies at this point. But yes they have made some mistakes. My point was that the wearing of masks has turned into a religion and my fear is that the public has been led to believe that if you’re wearing a mask it’s ok to ignore other more proven methods of deterrence.

      1. I don’t think that the public is in any danger of being misled “to believe that if you’re wearing a mask it’s ok to ignore other more proven methods of deterrence.”

        The fundamental issue on this website seems to be a disbelief that masks help at all OR that yes they do, but I don’t need to wear one because its my right not to.

        If you know some other very easy to do method to stop the spread that people will adopt without hesitancy PLEASE share it.

        Because the path we are on now will get us nowhere.

  87. Eventually, everyone will catch the China Bio-Weapon virus (take-19) It’s simply a matter of time and yes; “science”. The good news is… about 99.5% of us will pull through. The others will fall victim to their comorbidity conditions exasperated by the ChiRona.

    Wearing a mask to protect yourself against a viral infection, is like wearing a t-shirt to protect yourself against a bullet. Wear one if it makes you feel better about yourself, but don’t expect miracles and stop pretending it matters.

    … carry on… oh, and wash your hands often.

    1. Let’s take your points one by one.

      “China bio-weapon”: COVID-19 was not man-made. Furthermore, the strain that is infecting the US evolved in Italy, and came over Europe. This is why Trump’s policy to limit some (but not even most) travel from China was ineffective.

      “Good news… 99.5% will pull through”. We have a population of 300+ million people. 0.5% of that is 1.5 million Americans who don’t “pull through”. That’s certain not “Good News” by any reasonable definition. And, many of those who “pulled through” will suffer long term health and cognitive impairments.

      The primary reason to wear a mask is not to protect yourself from the virus, it’s to protect other people from you in case you have it and don’t realize it. This is particularly important with COVID-19 because people who have it are most contagious *before* they show any symptoms.

      But hey, you got the washing your hands often part right. So you’ve got that going for you.

      1. Reports have come out saying covid-19 is man made. So until we know with absolute certainty you can’t really make a blanket statement that it isn’t.
        A mask does protect the wearer. When I was hospitalized the medical staff didn’t wear a mask. When it was known I was contagious with the flu they then wore a mask, not asking me to wear one. So that argument is false that it doesn’t protect the wearer. I believe it was not pushed at first due to a mask shortage.

    2. Please explain why South Korea does so well if it is not the masks, that everyone wears as normal, that are not making the difference? Remember we got the first case of Covid on the same day as them……

      1. Mike,

        Because most of the Asian countries have some “memory” immunity built up from all the viruses they’ve dealt with over the years. Malaria, Dengue fever, Typhoid, H1NI, etc. Lots of cases when they test of course, but mortality rate is much lower – reference India. Japan only tests when someone is actually sick enough to go to the hospital – similar to why New York is not showing nearly as many cases as they’ve actually had.

        It also doesn’t hurt that most of the people over there are not morbidly obese with diabetes and hypertension issues.

        This virus is teaching Americans a valuable lesson, that you need to eat better, exercise regularly, and see a Doctor BEFORE you are very sick,

        1. My friend, you need to learn a bit more about the biochemistry/biology involved in human immunity. See this page, basic immuno lesson:
          https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-human-body-systems/hs-the-immune-system/a/hs-the-immune-system-review

          Immunity is achieved by highly specific protein-protein interactions (antibody-antigen). The proteins on the outside of the malarian plasmodium parasite (not a virus) are nothing like the spike proteins on the outside of the SARS-CoV-2 virus (the virus that causes COVID19).

          Dengue virus is in a totally different family of viruses than SARS-CoV-2, in the Flaviviridae; genus Flavivirus.

          Even SARS disease virus (a coronavirus) is significantly different in its spike protein amino acid sequence, that antibodies developed against SARS will not interact with SARS-CoV-2 antigens:
          https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30098-7/fulltext

          Specifically, the argument that Asian countries are doing so much better (per capita) than US is that they have been exposed to similar viruses has been disproven in one of the most definitive studies at the link above. A few details:
          “a seropositive rate of 2·73% (53 of 1938 serum samples) in SARS-CoV-2 enzyme immunoassays”
          and
          “There are seven types of coronaviruses that naturally infect humans. SARS-CoV-2, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) can cause severe acute respiratory illnesses. By contrast, the four endemic genotypes, including 229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1, usually only cause mild upper respiratory tract infections, and thus can be classified as low-pathogenic human coronaviruses. In total, there have been just over 10?000 cases of SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. Because of their genetic relation with SARS-CoV-2 (appendix), the generation of cross-reactive antibodies is not surprising. However, as the population exposed to these two coronaviruses was very small and the outbreaks occurred some years ago, their effect on the global COVID-19 pandemic would be minimal.”

      1. I think the pushback on mask-wearing is coming from people getting sick of the media fear-mongering. I believe the media has gotten so bad in this country, it’s sickening.

        I don’t watch ANY American TV anymore except for football when my husband has it on. After Sunday’s game I didn’t turn it off quick enough and caught the first couple of minutes of 60 minutes. How low that show has sunk! It used to be a favorite, but after 2 minutes I was disgusted by the partisan nonsense and ridiculous spin. And of course they just won’t stop with coronavirus. Yes, it’s very contagious, yes, it will be very harmful to some. Enough already, it’s not the only game in town and there are plenty other deadly illnesses. So many are living in fear of this virus that odds are will not be that harmful to them. Yes, we all know it will be harmful to some and no one is saying too bad for them.

        I have a friend whose son was just diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at 28 years old. You know how he feels about constantly hearing about this virus that does no harm to most people while his son is battling a disease that is devastating for everyone who gets it? This whole thing is just plain sickening on so many levels. People blaming it on Trump because they hate him, people self-righteously judging people on mask-wearing (and yes, most of them are hypocrites, from my experience), people afraid to leave their house.

        I’d take my chances with this virus any day over listening to all the talk about it. I’m getting old now. There are worse things older folk have to worry about, like heart issues, Alzheimer’s, stroke. Eff this virus, I’m sick of hearing about it. Everyone I know who got it, it was a big, fat nothing. *knock on wood*

        1. Death rates per age group:
          Age group All Deaths involving COVID-19 Deaths from All Causes
          45–54 years 11,093 130,088
          55–64 years 26,525 297,499
          65–74 years 45,015 450,532
          75–84 years 55,089 548,255

          https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

          https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-73777-8

          From January 26, 2020, through October 3, 2020, an estimated 299,028 more persons than expected have died in the United States.** Excess deaths reached their highest points to date during the weeks ending April 11 (40.4% excess) and August 8, 2020 (23.5% excess) (Figure 1). Two thirds of excess deaths during the analysis period (66.2%; 198,081) were attributed to COVID-19 and the remaining third to other causes†† (Figure 1).

          Although more excess deaths have occurred among older age groups, relative to past years, adults aged 25–44 years have experienced the largest average percentage increase in the number of deaths from all causes from late January through October 3, 2020. The age distribution of COVID-19 deaths shifted toward younger age groups from May through August (9); however, these disproportionate increases might also be related to underlying trends in other causes of death. Future analyses might shed light on the extent to which increases among younger age groups are driven by COVID-19 or by other causes of death.

          The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations. First, the weighting of provisional NVSS mortality data might not fully account for reporting lags, particularly in recent weeks. Estimated numbers of deaths in the most recent weeks are likely underestimated and will increase as more data become available. Second, there is uncertainty associated with the models used to generate the expected numbers of deaths in a given week. A range of values for excess death estimates is provided elsewhere (7), but these ranges might not reflect all of the sources of uncertainty, such as the completeness of provisional data. Third, different methods or models for estimating the expected numbers of deaths might lead to different results. Estimates of the number or percentage of deaths above average levels by race/ethnicity and age reported here might not sum to the total numbers of excess deaths reported elsewhere, which might have been estimated using different methodologies. Fourth, using the average numbers of deaths from past years might underestimate the total expected numbers because of population growth or aging, or because of increasing trends in certain causes such as drug overdose mortality. Finally, estimates of excess deaths attributed to COVID-19 might underestimate the actual number directly attributable to COVID-19, because deaths from other causes might represent misclassified COVID-19–related deaths or deaths indirectly caused by the pandemic. Specifically, deaths from circulatory diseases, Alzheimer disease and dementia, and respiratory diseases have increased in 2020 relative to past years (7), and it is unclear to what extent these represent misclassified COVID-19 deaths or deaths indirectly related to the pandemic (e.g., because of disruptions in health care access or utilization).

          Article
          Open Access
          Published: 06 October 2020
          The age distribution of mortality from novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) suggests no large difference of susceptibility by age

          We estimated the parameter which describes the age-dependency of susceptibility by fitting the model to reported data, including the effect of change in contact patterns during the epidemics of COVID-19, and the fraction of symptomatic infections. Our study revealed that if the mortality rate or the fraction of symptomatic infections among all COVID-19 cases does not depend on age, then unrealistically different age-dependencies of susceptibilities against COVID-19 infections between Italy, Japan, and Spain are required to explain the similar age distribution of mortality but different basic reproduction numbers (R0). Variation of susceptibility by age itself cannot explain the robust age distribution in mortality by COVID-19 infections in those three countries, however it does suggest that the age-dependencies of (i) the mortality rate and (ii) the fraction of symptomatic infections among all COVID-19 cases determine the age distribution of mortality by COVID-19.

          In conclusion, the contribution of age-dependency to susceptibility is difficult to use to explain the robust age distribution in mortalities by COVID-19, and it suggests that the age-dependencies of the mortality rate and the fraction of symptomatic infections among all COVID-19 cases determine the age distribution in mortality from COVID-19. Further investigations regarding age-dependency on the fraction of infections becoming symptomatic is required to understand the mechanism behind the mortality by COVID-19 infections.

  88. I’ve learned from traveling for the last two months in Montana, Idaho, Utah, Massachusetts, New Hampshire that those who wear a mask of fear of getting Covid will gladly take it off around me (not wearing one) because I am a friendly gal who looks very organized and clean, will get a test because their insurance (your tax dollars) will pay for it (not due to symptoms/around anyone who has), will take it off on a plane to eat snacks provided by the carrier – screw Covid it’s snack time! We wear them in restaurants to order the food but take them off to eat…hahaha…it’s all counter-productive if you truly are scared of getting it. Point being – Covid is like religion. People obey the parts which work best for them and make excuses for the parts which don’t. If you’re scared – stay home and stop spreading your hypocrisy!

  89. Well, the self-proclaimed leader of “no masks” now has Covid and is now in the hospital.

    While we will all pray for him to live, my only hope is that he will change his belief (as evidenced by EVERYONE around him NOW wearing a mask as he was taken to the hospital) and stop the idiotic rhetoric that wearing a mask is not patriotic.

    He bears a huge responsibility in creating this situation. A true leader would now suck it up, admit his mistake, and unite us in protecting each other.

      1. Yes, he did say that, and he also knows that wearing a mask should be a choice, not a mandate in a Country founded on freedoms. Just like people have the choice to eat or drink whatever they want, never exercise, never see a Doctor until they are sick, and drive recklessly. Yeah, and I’m pretty sure there are plenty of positive cases for people who are very diligent about wearing masks. California and Illinois have been very strict about it from the beginning, yet both are still leading the way in new cases, kinda like Broward County was until herd immunity took hold.

        1. Herd Immunity requires at minimum 50% of a population have a virus. Broward County currently has an est 80,000 cases and a population est of 1.9 million. That’s not herd immunity.

          1. Not true, by a long shot. Read up on what’s already happened in major cities across the globe with antibody studies. More like 20-25% pending the age of the people and activity level. Case numbers are only being reported for the folks who’ve been tested, not the millions who never got tested like in NYC during the peak.

          2. Don’t forget everyday they told us it’s at least ten times the amount of people who have positive results. Every single news cast said today’s total is 3,000 (as an example) but really is at least ten times that. So by your own totals that would put it at 800,000 positive cases at least. Unless the media was lying just trying to makes things look worse. So herd immunity may actually be closer than you realize.

        2. People may have the CHOICE to drive recklessly (as you wrote), but they do not have a legal RIGHT to that behavior. You have the choice to drink Clorox too if you like, but that says nothing about the “rightness” of your choice for Society IF others must pay for your hospitalization. There are laws to protect the public against reckless behavior that can create potential harm to the public. You may be ABLE to drink and drive and feel that is your Choice, but in a country with a Rule of Law, irresponsible choices that creates harm to others is NOT a Right. In order to have Law and Order, you must first have Law.

          Your Choice to infect me does not override my Right not to be infected by you.

          1. Unfortunately, it is insane to expect every human being to do the right thing. The mask-wearing debate is just another cause of divisiveness during these turbulent times. If I were very worried about contracting this virus, I would stay home. I certainly wouldn’t go out and put my life in the hands of every screwball walking the streets. (present company excluded, of course). Finding someone to blame wouldn’t give me any solace.

            Personally, I believe it needs to run its course.

            New York and New Jersey have gone out of their minds. I have relatives up there that are literally spouting the most nonsensical things I have ever heard them say. The latest: Trump is much sicker than they are telling us, no one is in charge and as such we are in danger of a military strike since we are just sitting ducks here, especially considering how the whole world knows we are all idiots.

            I don’t think I can take another 4 years of this. 🙂

          2. I see, no mention about people making bad choices with their diet and lack of exercise, it becomes my problem to protect them, as well as my own family. Sound like a lawyer waiting to sue someone because you got sick. Feel the same way about the flu and every other pathogen that’s afflicted the globe from the beginning of time? Did they not kill enough in their hey day to wear masks then? Face it, we’re only talking about masks now because it’s an election year, Joe Biden still has no other plan to combat the virus other than masks that he knows he can’t mandate, and 46% of America has TDS.

        3. Thank you so much. I’m so sick of the FORCED MANDATES and people so blatently UNEDUCATED that they think A mandate is A LAW. Hello????? Something has to go thru do process to be put on a docate to be voted for becoming A law in which thier has NOT BEEN.

        4. Yes Terry – it is every American’s right to drive drunk too. It’s a free country – and they’re only endangering themselves – just like not wearing a mask. That makes perfect sense.

        5. Terry, as with every other time you have posted, you are once again a font of misinformation. while it is true freedom, from taxation without representation primarily, is a founding principle of this nation. What you believe is freedom, “guberment aint tellin’ me what to do”, is anarchy. Freedom in the USA is governed by uncountable federal, state, local and municipal codes. They are generally not intrusive on basic freedoms that our society as a whole, and more specifically the wealthy, have consensus on. The “government” actually does in some cases require people to have medical examination or treatment or frequent drug testing for various jobs and professions, the require physicals participation in sports, and they can quarantine you or require masks among a host of other requirements during a declared epidemic.

          to address your other examples, yes the government can regulate what you eat and drink (and they do), special taxes on soft drinks, banning import of foods, regulate foods out of existence. some examples https://www.eatthis.com/banned-foods-in-america/

          driving recklessly, we”ll call that a non example.

          broward does not have herd immunity, if anyone did it would be some new york city locales, but its not the case their either for 2 reasons minimum 60% likely higher previous infections a
          AND because reinfections already documented.

          just fyi- florida has the LOWEST per capita testing in the country, less than 1 per thousand residents, with a positivity over 10% (despite the statistical magic FDOH uses to reach their below 5% number)

          1. Scott, I could easily argue that the way New York and some of these hardest hit States in the NE are not testing correctly either. Florida is including positive antigen tests, they are not. So while we can argue whether that should be included or not, because having antibodies is actually a good thing, for sure New York would have been reporting much higher than 1% positivity because we all know how many people already had the virus there – NJ, Conn, and Mass as well. Florida is including every negative test but not every positive test. Again, debatable, but from a controlling the spread perspective does it really help to report every positive test for the same person? Thank you for letting me know you’re still positive 10 times? Reporting all negatives seems to be more logical, because it indicates less infections.

            Per the WHO, 10% of the World population has had this thing, and they made this point because they were trying to show that 90% of the World is still vulnerable. Fine. But you are also showing that the actual case mortality rate is 1M dead over 760M infected, which amounts to a .13% (that’s point 13) case mortality rate. And guess what, hospitalizations and deaths are decreasing due to better treatments and younger, healthy people getting infected – but not sick.

            For the 1000th time, many scientists have disputed that you need 60-70% infection rates to achieve some sort of herd immunity.

            Sweden must be laughing their collective a$$es off at Europe and the rest of the World. Their decision not to lockdown, not close schools, and not to mandate masks, and trust their people to be adults, is looking smarter by the day. But then again, they are not in an election year

        6. First of all herd immunity only works with the body is showing immunity from a virus. So far not one patient has had any long term immunity. In fact people are getting it again. Also herd immunity, with our population would kill3 to 6 million Americans. This is not like any other virus . The kicker is that long term heart & lung damage is showing up in adults & even children that never had symptoms! So, we should try to avoid catching it & our children should be protected! Masks, social distancing. We don’t have enough testing or contact tracing because our Gov wants to keep numbers down! Masks are not a political statement! That is the reason we are doing do much worse than other countries because people are told they have a right. All because some people think it makes you look weak. Covid makes you look weak too! Broward county has not achieved herd immunity! Stop listening to Dr atlas! He is a radiologist! No experience at all! In fact I’m starting a class action for the bad medical advice that has killed loved ones.

          1. Check CDC. Not one single documented case of reinfection in first 90 days after Positive and a single case of some sketchy traveler from China who allegedly got reinfected after having it early on. There are plenty of experts who think that “case” is bogus based on the information put out. So 0 reinfections. stop watching CNN and do your own research. The misinformation in these posts is frightening… since people want to cite CDC and misstate CDC. Read every published, double blind, peer reviewed reviewed study (Fauci claims only those count) – masks do not work to stop influenza virus. These all occurred over last 15+ years BEFORE Covid19 (not panic research?) with no outlier research in support masks doing any good. Like Fauci said (lied I guess) until he didn’t. Even WHO says masks have so little impact. So does CDC in July and Sept:
            ” In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25).

            A piece is crap paper mask from China stands between you and a deadly virus? Feeling lucky? people fumble and touch their masks making them an infection source says CDC too.

          2. Regarding BK’s comments. It is correct that randomized double blind studies with a control are the gold standard but many have serious flaws. You can’t blind wearing or not wearing a mask. Compliance, adequate followup, differences in subjects exposure between populations and differences in other behaviors that affect risk but most importantly an insufficient sample size can influence outcomes. An underpowered study has a high probability of failing to identify a difference. The very wide confidence interval in the report you posted is indicative of underpowered studies. It is correct that high quality evidence proving masks are effective is lacking. However WHO, the CDC and the vast majority of infectious disease specialists urge the use of masks because the bulk of evidence indicates that they have a very high probability of reducing risk.However they are not totally protective. Equally important are distancing, frequent hand washing and avoiding indoor spaces with large numbers of people for prolonged periods of time. The CDC has removed the article you refer to from its website.

        7. Broward County does not have herd immunity. To date, there is no place on this planet that has herd immunity. Please refer to CDC and Dr. Anthony Fauci’s information on herd immunity. Broward County lowered their Covid numbers by adhering to protocol: masks, social distancing, staying home, washing hands frequently. According to the CDC and NIH, the two top immunological organizations in the world, masks are the single-most important way to stop the virus. When people exercise their ‘freedom’ to not wear a mask, they are depriving others of their freedom to stay alive, stay healthy, keep their job, their house, their car, their life. Any freedom we have in the U.S. is to be exercised responsibly. Unless non-mask wearers build a Mask-free Pale of Settlement and stay within its walls, their ‘freedom’ to not abide by CDC guidelines ends where the safety and life of others begins. WE are not ‘free’ to run a red light at an intersection because it may harm or maim others. We are not ‘free’ to drive without a seatbelt, or drunk, or while texting, because it may harm others. It’s exactly the same. We are not ‘free’ to go maskless because it may harm others. Americans are not, historically, a nation of selfish narcissists. This is a recent disease infecting the nation along with Covid-19. It’s called irresponsible, selfish self-centeredness,

          1. ken,

            july 22 is not just released and to be clear, there is at least one genetically documented case of reinfection in nevada. there are several other cases that have been reported but because of lack of retention of initial tests samples, not as clearly verified. but they tested positive months after original confirmed illness. genetic test proves a later and earlier strain infection.

      2. Herd immunity requires 50-90% of a population to be immune depending on its infectivity. Covid is highly infectious and will be closer to and probably higher than the 70% average. Furthermore it is not clear how long immunity lasts. Documented cases of second infection are being seen with a mutated virus, the reason we have frequent colds and influenza returns every year. We need a new influenza vaccine combo because of the ability of some virus’s to adapt by mutating. Those who suggest herd immunity from spontaneous infection are using magical thinking.

    1. There is no “cure” and there never will be. Case in point are all the ineffectual influenza vaccines that year over year miss the mark and result in tens of thousands of deaths. We have never “cured” a novel virus and the outlook on this one is equally as slim. All the draconian actions including masks are only aimed at “slowing” the spread. Just by using the term “slowing” the “experts know there is no way to stop it. We all need to get on board that this thing is here to stay and we need to learn to live with it as humans throughout history have done. The illegal attempts to curtail freedom are simply power grabs by the ones who peddle fear.

      Governor DeSantis please address these unconstitutional counties like Hillsborough, Pinellas, Dade, etc that openly brag about continuing to cite citizens awaiting the expiration of the suspended fines so that they can screw it populous at a later date. Just look at St Petersburg, FL mayor Rick Kriseman and trusty side kick Kevin King who were caught red-handed fomentingviolence in opposition of your order.

    2. Why does the Florida Dept of Health let moronic politicians lead them. When their job is to protect the citizens of this state? It is obvious those employed at the Florida Dept of Health value their jobs more than the lives of the citizens who they are supposed to protect.

    3. So what’s your story now that he’s fine? Everyone is eventually going to catch this virus. We can’t live our lives in a cave to avoid a freaking virus. It’s not the first one we’ve ever encountered but it is the first one that was used as a political weapon.

    4. Well, based on his last tweets, any behavior or messaging about protecting each other with masks and social distancing ain’t gonna happen. Be safe out there.

      1. And now that his last tweet states that its just like the flu, those that listen to him will believe it. I am saying prayers for all of my friends and family who wear masks but will be endangered by people who listen to his false claims (some have died) . These people who protect others by wearing masks will further withdraw their presence and money from the part of the economy that needs it most.

        If there was national leadership to actually validate how important masks are to protect each other and people believed it and practiced it, we could actually have safe gatherings, safe restaurants, and safe schools without hiding and without shutting down.

        Masks work, social distancing works. It would go a tremendous way to getting Covid under control while we find a vaccine. Yet, he will NEVER make that a national message. It sounds weak, its unpatriotic, and it denies your civil liberties.

        His father never endured weakness in any of his sons. And its a curse that he pays for every day. Except now, WE are paying for it with our lives.

        1. Fauci says the President listens and has not sent out contrary guidance. God Fauci is the Gold Standard. Harris said the other night she would take the vaccine if Fauci said Okay, but not Trump. So stop your TDS meltdown… If you figured out that Trump is saying and doing the “wrong thing” then why can’t everyone else? BTW, was Sweden wrong? Those with TDS have it in their DNA! 48% have TDS so you should hope Trump does the opposite of what you claim is “right” because you and your TDS disciples will always do the opposite of Trump or, in your world, the “right” thing. Don’t over complicate this.

    5. Sweden has less than 200 new cases per day and they did absolutely nothing to prevent the virus. This thing just needs to run it’s course. When you blame Trump for a random virus, you obviously have nothing else to complain about. MAGA!

      1. Not true, Sweden understood that the virus spread in crowds and unventilated areas. The country imposed all kinds of limitations on mass gatherings.

    6. @Gary Spain enforces masks with citations even outdoors and currently has more cases per capita than US. He said they make sense in high risk situations. They believed their White House testing regime made those gatherings lower risk. They probably did, but if you are meeting with that many different people you are bound to transfer contagious genetic material. Always could do more but there is then also always a cost.

    7. I don’t remember him saying it was unpatriotic to wear a mask but we should all just use the good common sense most of us were born with and not run around in a panic which is what I believe the President was attempting to project. Stay safe and healthy.

  90. Is there any data on the ages of those hospitalized? Of the 2100 hospitalized today there may be many long term cases that have been there for weeks, which means the hospitalization number will go down much less rapidly on its way to zero.

    1. I agree. Could simply add a “serious” or “ventilated” variable to the chart too. “Serious” could be hospitalized more than 1 or 2 weeks. Not matter how you analyze it, Florida has obviously gone way down.

        1. Exactly! People seem to think that cases are down and you’re in the clear — I think your deaths have maintained a pretty steady level. You’re 5th in the nation in deaths. In no way is that good news.

          1. Florida had a big backlog of “probable” COVID-19 deaths to process, a lot in Miami-Dade, so that is the why the death numbers still look high, except on weekends of course. As everyone knows, unlike the rest of the world, in the US there is a financial and political benefit to putting COVID-19 on the death certificate as a contributor – look up Medicare and COVID-19 reimbursement. Good news is if you drill into the actual date of death, you will the numbers are way down for the past month so I expect the backlog will be cleared soon.

            Florida is floating between 12 and 14 in terms of deaths per population, so for the third most populous state, with probably the highest percentage of elderly, we’re doing better than most big states.

            #factsvsfear
            #herdimmunity

    2. I refer you to the FAU COVID-19 tracking site at:

      https://business.fau.edu/covidtracker/data/florida-data/

      Does it really matter how long they’ve been in the hospital when the current ratio of COVID-related to everything else is currently 2,095 compared to 41,617? This ratio was 6116/41531on 7/10, so clearly a lot of people are occupying hospital beds throughout the year, but a lot less for COVID-19-related illnesses.

      Is the latest goalpost move for going back to normal that we have to have zero people hospitalized for COVID-19?

      This virus has taught us that a lot of Americans are not in good shape, don’t eat right, never excuse, and certainly don’t see a Doctor before they are actually sick. Hopefully a wake up call.

        1. Not a realistic goal with any virus, new ones get introduced, some cooked up in a lab in Communist countries, others from birds and animals. How long as the flu been around, with a flu shot available every year? Goal is to come up with better treatments and minimize deaths. We’ve all learned two valuable lessons, 1.) Americans need to take better care of their health and not rely on others to keep them from getting sick, 2.) locking down caused WAY more collateral damage given we knew who was most vulnerable very early on.

      1. The most interesting stat on that site (to me) is the CFR (case fatality rate). It has dropped dramatically in every age group since April. That would seem to suggest to me that even if you get COVID, the hospitals have very adept at treating the virus. That’s a very important statistic, obviously. At one point, AIDS was statistically a death sentence. Now the death rate is extremely low in comparison and there have even been cases where patients were effective cured. That’s not to say that death is the only important stat, but is certainly the highest.

  91. Gov. DeSantis is now following DJT’rump’s lead – by adjusting Fla’s COVID restrictions to enable a COVID19 Contamination-Level, in Fla., of approx., 60% of our population. Herd Immunity theorizes that when 60% of a given population is contaminated with a pathogen- it will have the epidemic “under-Control.” Collectively speaking – Herd Immunity in the US will require contaminating approx. 200. Million of us, with COVID 19. Using a conservative 3% death- rate – more than 6.Million Americans would die from COVID19. If the “Herd Immunity” process is the government’s choice to deal with the COVID19 epidemic…Then, the Life-Threatening” aspects of this choice should be made clear to all of us. The “Herd Immunity” process …now under-way….has been very discretely kept from the public.

    1. How can you post that drivel? The most important metric that cannot be argued against is the current hospitalizations. Look at that figure. Trending down. New infections, trending down.

      You sound like you would be happier in a communist state where you have to be told what to do and how to do it. Wear a mask! Social distance! don’t go to work! etc. etc. etc.

      How about exercising a little personal initiative? If you are afraid for your safety, stay inside, wear an n-95 mask, mitigate your risk. Your conspiracy theory about “herd immunity” is also known as people going about their daily lives in a way they choose based on their own risk profile.

      Having come from a former communist country, and happy that I escaped, I will advise you to go and take a look. Maybe it suits you. They are always looking for new suckers to subjugate.

      But I guess your TDS is so bad that you are too far gone. You connect anything that happens in our society to the guy in the Whitehouse. Get a life. No one controls my success. I prospered under Bush, Obama, Trump and will prosper no matter who is there. Its called hustle. Those that blame their life’s problems on others and believe in doom and gloom conspiracy theories are pathetic.

      I really feel sorry for you. Living in the most prosperous place and time in man’s history and all you can see is doom and gloom.

      I gotta go. I’m taking my wife and kids out for breakfast, then enjoying the beach, life, and everything else that’s good going on around me.

        1. John page, I love your attitude. I agree, let’s do our own thinking and not be led by the BS that gets repeated over and over. Intelligent people all over the world know that.

      1. Surely the most important metric is deaths? That does not seem to be trending down. I really hope hospitalizations continue downward but worry that moving to phase 3 will reverse that. It would be great if it doesn’t,

        Just a question on masks, how do people explain the good performance of the likes of South Korea and other Asian countries where masks are considered the best way to protect yourself and others? The does not compare well….

        1. Its been well publicized that Daily deaths are reflective of a backlog. The daily death toll on this publication is not when people actually died, but rather, when death cert was filed. I.e a death recorded today may actually be of a person who died in july, but only got to be reported today. Please be at least a little educated before you join the adults table at thanksgiving.

      2. “New infections trending down.” Did I read that correctly? Have you been on the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Tracker this week? You must be looking at the graphs on your computer upside-down. Positivity rates have increased just in the past five days. Florida’s jumped from 11.7 to 12.3 percent. Wisconsin’s rate is 22.9 percent. Nevada, 17.3; Iowa, 20.2. Hospital ICUs in rural areas are maxed out and they are filling up in urban areas, too. I hate to break it to you, but normal colds and flus don’t upset hospital and clinic operations the way this virus does. This is going to be a long winter.

    2. You are mistaken on the 3% death rate. The survival rate is 99.97% and as new cases increase while deaths decrease the survival rate will increase.

      Did you not listen to the 2 hour press conference Gov. Desantis did the world renowned experts which concluded that our society is clearly entering into herd immunity?

      A common misconception amongst the Left is that new cases equals deaths. The data clearly shows that this is not correct. And before somebody accuses me of not caring about people, I am being oppressed with a mask mandate by an out of control county administrator here in Pasco County named Dan Biles. There needs to be rational balance in how the government infringes upon people’s personal space and personal choices. Not to mention the harmful effects of wearing face coverings from oxygen deprivation and CO2 poisoning. These are very real effects from wearing masks and no one in the government provides warnings to the general public while at the same time demanding that people wear them. And then of course there’s all the karens out there who harass people who don’t wear masks. They don’t seem to care at all that people like me or harmed by wearing masks.

      What someone does to protect themselves is a very personal choice and we are long past the point of simply excepting government dictates from power-hungry bureaucrats!

      Stop spreading ignorant fear and get your facts right. Just read the data!

      1. “Stop spreading ignorant fear and get your facts right” It’s interesting that this is the last line of your statement seeing as how you want to make us believe that wearing a mask is somehow harmful to everyone’s health. There is no evidence for this. The easiest way to refute it is to simply look at doctors and nurses who are wearing N95 rated masks for hours on end and have no breathing side effects.

        1. Let me educate you Debi, SURGEONS AND NURSES DO NOT WEAR N95 MASKS – THEY WEAR SURGICAL MASKS.

          There is a substantial difference. Specifically, N95 masks are mostly used in manufacturing used to solely to protect the wearer (mostly from dust particulates in the air). The huge check valve on the mask is the dead giveaway. Surgical masks are intended to protect those around the wearer.

          N95 masks were developed to deal with tuberculosis , which is a bacteria, which is 1,000 times larger than a virus. Viruses sail through the membrane of both N95 and surgical masks.

          Yet another Leftist who is ignorant of the data and basic medical facts on the attack. Ahhh, the arrogance of the young.

          And I was only speaking for myself not everyone as falsely claim. I recently had sinuplasty surgery to correct a severely deviated septum which made wearing a mask very difficult to breath. Wearing a mask post surgery is even more difficult due to swelling. I have a legitimate medical exemption from my doctor. However this does not stop you busybody karens from harassing me everywhere I go.

          It’s gotten to where I don’t go to the stores hardly at all anymore. Are you happy? Does it please you to know how people like you curtail me freedom? And what about the lost revenue for those businesses? The ripple effect of harm from masks is significant. A Marxist wouldn’t care about these things, what about you?

          However, now that you bring it up, wearing masks which are mandated by local governments IS harmful to basically everyone due to hypoxia and/or respiratory acidosis.

          After wearing a mask for less than 1 minute and the oxygen content inside the mask falls to 16%. The Federal minimum is 19.5% (the ideal is 20.5%). This is where hypoxemia begins to set in. If you exert yourself or simply wear the mask for a prolonged period of time, hypoxia sets in which can damage organs, reduce one’s immunity and at the very least you will experience fatigue.

          CO2 poisoning is just as serious resulting in respiratory acidosis. CO2 regulates the pH balance in your blood. This is when the pH in your blood becomes acidic. The body senses the change and if it is too much you will pass out. The unconsciousness regulates the breathing and brings the pH back to normal.

          So Debi, you are wrong you are callous towards people who are in fact harmed by mandatory masks. You may be able to tolerate masks but a LOT of your fellow citizens CANNOT.

          You are also wrong about your claim that there is no evidence that masks are harmful. You just have look just a little and you will find it. Dr. Russell Blaylock’s article in Technocracy.com cites several long term studies which prove 3 things:

          1) masks are proven to be ineffective in protecting the wearer from viruses.
          2) masks cause hypoxia and/or respiratory acidosis to varying degrees in almost everyone who wears a mask for almost any length of time.
          3) masks are largely “theatrical comfort” for the wearer or those around the wearer.

          Be considerate of others when demanding that someone attach a mask to their face.

          1. This is all baseless rhetoric.
            Nothing you said is backed up by science. As Obi Wan Kenobi said “who’s the more foolish the fool
            Or the fool who follows him?

          2. Sally T, I love living rent free in your head!? I’ve presented so many facts that you are actually rejecting basic, commonly known, household level, scientific and medical facts.

            You’re going to give yourself a ‘roid hyperventilating about this (that gives you respiratory alkalosis, ain’t science fun?)

            In true leftist fashion you immediately resort to name calling and ridicule. No data, none of the time. You’re only mad because you know I’m right so you come up with a 2nd grade insult to discourage people from listening to me.

            You can’t shout me down Sally. People are listening to me because what I’m saying is indisputable scientific fact AND COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

            You might want to duct tape your head now because this will blow your mind. My family has taken zero precautions to avoid COVID-19 since this started back in February. We don’t wear masks, we shake people’s hands and (oh the humanity!) we actually hug people.

            All we do is take zinc and quercetin once a day and we have a magic force field around us. Unfortunately it won’t protect us from ignorant people who wear masks while driving alone in their cars or attack us for sharing knowledge but there’s always hope. We simply refuse to participate in your pandemic.

            You are free to ruin your life avoiding the bogeyman of COVID-19 but stop trying to ruin mine. I have thoroughly educated myself on this virus and I do my best to educate everyone that I can.

            There’s no reason for the vast majority of to live in fear. If someone is high risk then they need to isolate themselves. If you have a suppressed immune system, pulmonary problems, cardiovascular problems, diabetes or other complications of obesity then you need to quarantine yourself because you could die if you get this disease.

            But the rest of us which includes more than 99.97% of the population are going to be just fine if we get COVID-19. We can do our civic duty and participate in herd immunity.

            We’re going to go and have fun and live our lives in point and laugh at fools who insist upon being terrified by this and try to drag everyone else down with you.

            Instead of buying politically fed rhetoric you will find Tranquility in learning what I have learned. Stop ridiculing people like me and just inform your self. I promise you Sally, there’s a lot more happiness in knowledge than there is in the fear that you practice in.

          3. Steven Emm, I use a face shield which does not impede my breathing at all and I have never been stopped from entering any establishment (in a county with widespread mask mandate and usage). This alternative could give you more freedom.

          4. There’s so much here to disagree with I’m not sure where to start…and not to be a jerk but I seriously do not have time to do it.

            Suffice to say that doctors and nurses do wear N95 masks for hours on end if they are working with a contagious disease. There are probably other conditions in which they wear them as well, but since I do not pretend to be an expert I’m not sure what those may be. However, no one is asking the public to wear N95 masks…ever. They’re actually not even asking the public to wear surgical masks. They’re asking them to wear cloth masks. There is no evidence masks are harmful to the general public. I know that there are people have been given exemption from this or feel they need exemption from it, so be it. If 98% of people are wearing them it’s all good.

        2. Speaking as a physician, I can tell you that we do wear N95 masks for certain procedures. At on of the hospitals I work for, an example set by hospital governance is “aerosolizing procedures.” An exampe would be giving a patient with COVID, whose lungs are faling, an endotracheal tube. Then I would have to wear an N95 mask fit to my face (we get re-fit every year or if we gain or lose weight). N95s protect me from your disease, but not necessarily you from mine. Here’s the Mayo clinic’s brief education about masks for you: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
          If wearing a mask made O2 levels fall, then how do we do surgery for hours on end? The shortest surgery I have participated in was ~2h. My colleagues often do surgeries >12 hours. Somehow, even when wearing masks, we survive.
          And a deviated septum? No problem, wear a mask and breath through your mouth. That’s how we survive surgeries when our allergies are acting up.
          Also, the death rate in the USA, dividing deaths by cases is ~2.9%. IF we assume only 50% of actual infections get tested (which is reasonable, as ~50% of the infected don’t have symptoms) then the death rate in the USA is ~1.4%. That is not good. ~210 000 dead Americans so far. That’s 3.6 times as many as died in the the Vietnam war. That is not good.
          And ignorance like yours is part of the problem. Masks work, period

      2. Problem is youre picking and choosing false data. One that will contribute to deaths. Continue to feel good about your denial for convenience when people die. Probelm with DeSantis is he backed a President who ran a lousy economy pre covid now he needs to help with the distraction.

        1. Keep telling yourself that DegreeD White Guy. Like a good Lefty you attack me but you can’t disprove anything I’m saying.

          C’mon lefties, you’re not sending your best. Put a little effort in and do some research and prove me wrong. It should be easy based upon how boisterous you are.

          You can’t because your enemy is the facts – not me. But you can’t attack the facts, facts are an immovable object for you. So you try to distract others from the facts which discredit you by attacking me. It’s like a cat with catnip, you are so easy to draw out and manipulate. Ultimately you discredit yourselves meanwhile I successfully expose good people to useful information.

          As for people dying, giving high risk people a false sense of safety by telling them that a mask will protect them is what will kill people. But you can’t stop yourself from using the heavy hand of government to force everyone else into your WOKE hellhole of having wear a mask for fear of being fined. Making a few people’s problems into everyone’s problems will not help the few. It weakens all of us.

          High risk people need to isolate themselves. For you high risk people out there, pay attention to this. Look at me, feel free to wear a mask but that is not why the government is forcing everyone to wear a mask. The government’s primary purpose is source control.

          They say that the mask will keep a healthy person who is infected from infecting someone else. The data about masks nullifies this. Heck, it says right there on the box of every mask sold that “this mask is effective in preventing viral infections.” These Leftist liberals will tell you I’m lying. DON’T TAKE ANYONE’S WORD FOR IT. Just look at the box your mask came in.

          Viruses sail right through masks. Go ahead and wear the mask but don’t think you are protected. Again, the mask is for source control. Not to protect the wearer from viruses. Don’t take unnecessary chances. COVID-19 is very contagious and cell division is aggressive. High risk people should wear your masks and hunker down until herd immunity takes over. Let us healthy people get this disease and build herd immunity which will ultimately protect everyone.

          Yet another indisputable fact is that all of us are going to contract COVID-19 sooner or later. As individuals we can build immunity over time with repeated small exposures or we can contract the full blown COVID flu. At this point our society has enough people who have immunity so that we are entering herd immunity. Herd immunity IS WHAT PROTECTS THE WEAKEST AMONGST US.

          For some bizarre reason you Lefties reject this basic fact. Oh yeah, that’s right! You have Trump Deranged Syndrome. I know politics is sport for you guys but, there really is more to life than Orange Man Bad. Take a lesson from Dave Rubin. Find tranquility in accepting facts which disagree with your political beliefs.

          And now we are at the crux of all of this aren’t we. It’s always Orange Man Bad! You’re in such extraordinary, self defeating denial that you can’t recognize that we had the greatest economy in the history of mankind before COVID.

          Donald Trump simply took the government out of our way and let the people loose and we built the greatest economy ever. Just like we did under Reagan (you might want to borrow some of SallyT’s duct tape). And we’re going to do it again. Join us! Participate in prosperity instead of kicking rocks out in the parking lot.

          I’ll leave you by teasing you with the words “cycle threshold” or CT. Understand how this works with PCR testing and how the CT for most PCR testing should be below 30 cycles but how most positive COVID-19 tests are cycled 40 times (very few are as low as 37 times) resulting in a very high rate of false positives. A New York Times article found as many as 90% of PCR tests are false positive. Imagine feeling healthy and being forced to quarantine for 6 weeks because of false positives. All of that lost income and time with friends. All of the unnecessary arguments after being cooped up for all that time. All for nothing.

          You Lefties wonder why we are done listening to your WOKE nonsense? It’s because you’ve overplayed your hand and ripped off the mask revealing your true socialist agenda. Don’t let me stop you, go ahead, attack me. Call me names. Anything but dispute the facts, right?

          My work here is done so I’ll leave you to feast upon each other. But for God’s sake, stop fighting facts. Facts don’t care about your feelings.

          All the best,

          Steve

          1. The funny part is these idiots ATE IT LIKE THANKSGIVING TURKEY when Fauci BLATENTLY said the masks CANNOT protect you from the Covid stop wearing them. Then turns around with the A lie and says “Oh we only said that so Frontline Drs could have adequate masks!” Really Fauci because Dr.s get thier masks from Safeways and 99 Cents only stores lol get outta here with that garbage we all know they get thier medical equipment from TRUSTED medical supply companies. See the LEFT love the always used tactic of truth first followed by LIES and control. All the rich out there traveling partying doing what they want because they know its BULLSHIT. It’s really sad to me that they couldn’t have just said please wear them if you are feeling sick or gain any sick like conditions. Instead it’s been them playing MIND GAMES with American lives that has lead to people being judgmental PRICKS that use the MASK HYSTERIA to be assholes to people. I live the same way as you. I wash my hands and keep up on the zinc etc and have been in better shape then ever before. Intelligence is not an EVERYBODY thing I guess lol. Bless you and your family and may God bless you and your family.

          2. I may be wrong, but I think Steve’s zinc pills could be making him a little grumpy. Is that a thing? Or it could just be that not everyone agrees with him.
            My husband has asthma and diabetes so we don’t have the luxury of flaunting our “freedom” all over town.

            As long as the virus is out of control, we can’t spend money on things like travel, entertainment, dining out, etc. We’re stuck at the house. Money that could be going into the economy is going in the bank instead. And to friends who are having trouble paying their light bill because business is bad.

            It is what it is. If it’s worth the risk to you to get out there, great. But until everyone feels safe doing so, the economy can’t get going again. And the Governor assuring me that a hospital bed will be available for my husband if he needs one isn’t a great reason to get out there. It’s actually kind of insulting.

        2. I actually think Steven Emm has made some really good arguments and I am sitting here with my popcorn and beer waiting for a response to him beyond ObiWan quotes and an idiotic analysis of our economy prior to the shutdown. Good try though DegreeD White Guy. Now, since your “DegreeD”, offer up some data to rebut Steven’s argument… Guessing I will need to go get more beer before you respond.

    3. 80% of the population is immune. We know that from the quarantined cruise boat Diamond Princess. Of the 20% that is not, 50% of that amount is asymptomatic. Of the remaining 50% of the 20%, only .03, or 3% have died. So theoretically the most that would die even if the entire country was infected is around 1 million. But that isn’t going to happen due to improvements in treatment anyway. It’s just a worst case scenario.

    4. I was for strict lockdowns in the beginning. The curve was flattened. It’s been six months now. It is now time for personal responsibility. If you have preexisting conditions, are obese or live with someone under these conditions use your brain and do not put them at risk.

    5. Wow, 3% death rate, thanks for the scientific analysis Don Lemon and Rachel MadCow. Amazing how many liberals, including the Governors of NY, NY, and Conn conveniently leave out how many positive cases they actually had during the peak in Mar/Apr/May. The antibodies studies in the Bronx and other metro areas show that MILLIONS actually had this thing already, but that was when only people sick enough to be hospitalized got tested. This is why their death per case ratio is so much higher for the Northeast States than everyone else. You would think they would want to clarify that considering the Tri-State area accounts for almost 25% of the total deaths yet only 9% of the total US population. This would also drastically reduce the nationwide 3% ratio to less than 1%. Now anything that moves can be tested as many times as they want which is coincidentally why the three most populated States lead in cases – DUH!

      Scientists in places like Mumbai, Stockholm, and London have already concluded that due to activity levels of the younger part of the population, sheltering of the vulnerable, as well as the T-cells, some level of herd immunity occurs at as low as 25% which is certainly where most of South Florida is at now. Really glad our esteemed Governor has followed the Science and used common sense despite all the politics and fear mongering.

  92. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion over the difference between the numbers that John Hopkins is displaying and the numbers being reported by FDOH. Here is what I have found so far.

    1. John Hopkins does not include people who have tested negative multiple times even if they are different days. This helps explain why their total number of tests is less than half of the number of tests reported by FDOH. This is the wrong approach! The purpose of testing is to find community spread. To leave out the negatives just because the person tested negative in the past leaves you with numbers that don’t accurately reflect the actual spread of the virus.

    2. John Hopkins does include people who are repeat positives! Again if our goal is to find community spread then I believe this is the wrong approach as we are now saying how many people have Covid, not whether it is spreading or not. There can be debate whether there is value in showing the repeat positives but not if you are leaving out the repeat negatives.

    3. This I only found evidence of in AZ but it is possible that Florida is the same. If a test lab only reports their positives and leaves out their negatives then the state will exclude all information from that lab, while John Hopkins will include it. I don’t think this is happening any more and not in Florida but it is a possibility.

    Points 2 and 3 are both debatable and probably only a small change in the numbers but point 1 is very important and I strongly believe that John Hopkins is using the wrong approach. The reasons for testing are varied but a big one is to know community spread, where are the danger spots and where do we need to send resources if there is going to be an outbreak. The consistently falling hospitalizations (75% in 2 months) makes a lot more sense when looking at the FDOH numbers and the way that they report.

    Resources:
    https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/the-reason-why-there-are-so-many-conflicting-covid-19-positivity-rates-for-arizona/article_83fa2d80-dc33-11ea-8d38-17fac0e3733a.html

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-maryland-coronavirus-positivity-rate-hopkins-20200817-zoepxdjlxbazdm6kabrjehbemq-story.html

    1. If i test 1000 people, 10 times each over the month- like say for instance the people in the nba bubble- or i test 1000 people who have tested positive the standard 2 times for negative results to be cleared as they do for hospitalized and quarantined persons. counting more than 1000 initial tests for the nba as negatives or counting ANY of negatives for disease clearance would skew the results to make it appear that positivity is lower. This is exactly what florida has done. They have done this while reducing actual testing to among the lowest per population in the country 1-0.9 tests per thousand. florida apprx 22 million , tests 22-24k per day.

      just as a note- the lowered hospitalizations is due to prevalance of spread among younger persons, as this shifts outward over the coming days and weeks you will see hostilizations and deaths increase. with bars open 100% expect a tsunami. you can thank desantis.

    2. Shouldn’t John Hopkins use this same algorithm for NY/NJ/Ct?
      I believe for these states they are counting negatives. The result of this manipulation of data is completely misleading and bogus. If John Hopkins was a private company manipulating data to project a certain outcome, the fbi would be investigating them. Lastly, do you know of any lawsuits aimed to stop this? Thx