NOTE 06/01: No daily updates from 5/29-5/31. Numbers provided 6/1 are averaged to provide daily estimates.
NOTE 01/01: There was no report from FDOH on 01/01.
NOTE 12/26: There was no report from FDOH on 12/25.
NOTE 11/27: There was no report from FDOH on 11/26.
NOTE 10/11: There was no DOH COVID daily report on 10/10. Therefore, the 10/11 daily number for cases and deaths will include two days. The current hospitalization numbers and the seven day average numbers will not be impacted.
NOTE 9/1: DeSantis was informed late Monday that nearly 75,000 results of Quest testing data dating as far back as April would be ingested into the state’s COVID-19 data for Tuesday’s update. Source: Orlando Sentinel.
TR will update the three charts below on a daily basis without commentary. Submit questions in the comments section.
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Positive Cases
The chart below tracks the daily positive cases and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through June 1st.
Hospitalizations
The chart below tracks the daily hospitalizations and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through June 1st.
Deaths
The chart below tracks the daily reported deaths and provides a 7-day average trend line based on cases reported by the Florida Department of Health (DOH) through June 1st.
June 1: Tracking Florida COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Fatalities added by Staff on
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Been a long time……
Everyone I know has gotten vaccinated, everyone I know has gotten Covid. Luckily, no one had symptoms worse than flu-like for a day or two, and then some odd lingering things like Covid tongue. (It’s a thing. ?)
I still think much misinformation was given out in the beginning and then never corrected. I hear stories from people who “know nurses” in NYC and say they were told by these front-line people all sorts of horrific things. Like so many people were dying they were piling dead bodies on the sidewalks. I guess the refrigerated trucks all ran out of space. And it remains a political divide…the more the person hated Trump, the more horrific the stories are.
What a lesson in how people believe what they want, myself included.
So I came down with covid 2 weeks ago. I am fully vaccinated like everyone wants me to be. Couple things.
1. before I figured out i had it i gave it to people (didn’t matter that i was vaccinated).
2. It was a not great time of the flu for sure.
3. I got the regeneron that they are providing at camping world stadium and I almost immediately felt better. I was without symptoms in hours after that.
4. Every single person i know feels the same way about the regeneron.
5. I am convinced it would have been worse for me if I wasnt vaccinated. Dont know if Im right but the feeling i get.
Again if its all the same why isnt it simply my choice on the vaccination front? Also why is this regeneron product not a national priority.
Maybe because we have people who dont like America and when covid is a manageble flu then we have to get back to the principles of freedom and capitalism that provided the blanket of comfort by which people had the luxury to not like America. Just a wild guess.
The following comment is making more and more sense to me. I read it the other day in the comments section after a covid article.
‘I need to take your vaccine that doesnt work, because your vaccine doesnt work?”
Well, yeah, that’s my concern.
THIS below could have been said in March 2020, August 2020, January 2021, or last week.
“We have a surge. People are hospitalized, people are dying. Most people with Covid have flu-like symptoms or less.”
Me: My daughter has a cold
Doctor: Has she been exposed to Covid
Me: She is vaccinated
Doctor: That Doesnt Matter
So what is the bleeping point then
A recent New York Times article stated “Covid vaccines continue to maintain high protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death.” This quote was from Dr. Sara Oliver, a C.D.C. scientist.
I am having a really hard time buying into the narrative that the vaccine is saving people from severe effects of Covid. Everyone I know that got Covid before vaccines were available had the same severity of effects that vaccinated people are getting now.
I have been vaccinated and will get the booster. I feel, better safe than sorry. But, I don’t know what to believe with this. Too much of it doesn’t make sense.
Tony,
“I still cant understand the vaccine mandate argument – If you can still get covid and spread it if your vaccinated then why isnt it just a personal choice…… If you cant get covid and spread it then also why do you care (and why do i need a mask if im safe)”
I’m glad to read someone else had my thoughts. City of WP is requiring all city employees (500+-) to submit proof of full jab by Sept. 15. If the number is less than 65% jabbed (random ratio with no health organization backup to lean on) city commissioners will hold a “Special Meeting” to decide next move. If you can’t get jabbed on religious or medical grounds, you need proof. Overall, no jab, weekly testing for the non-jabbed. If you get covid, stay home with no pay. If get jabbed, the taxpayers will pay you $150 and give you a day off. Oh, it’s “entirely voluntary”.
Seems like a reasonable counter argument to 800,000 abortions (still more than covid deaths) – baby seats vs ability to afford a bigger car. This is the kind of self-fulfilling political logic that has us all in trouble.
Personal rights matter unless they don’t fit your politics.
Same thing the other way every child life matters but you cant make me wear a mask even if it saves one life because of my freedom.
This pandemic exposed that we are all hypocrites in that we just want what we want and will find some logic and some report of data to back it.
I still cant understand the vaccine mandate argument – If you can still get covid and spread it if your vaccinated then why isnt it just a personal choice – in that if you think your safer then get the vaccine and if someone doesn’t its on them. If you cant get covid and spread it then also why do you care (and why do i need a mask if im safe)
Alexander Coughlin, you combining masks with current virus. The virus does not bother children under 12 years of age. If you can find a study that shows children catch virus, are bedridden and require hospitalization at anywhere near a hazardous rate, please post. England, Ireland, know this. If you are interested, New York magazine had an article with many references. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html
To prevent abortions, we could regulate and require reversible vasectomies for all males until they are legally married or have legal consent to procreate from the corresponding female. If we are ok regulating what happens to women’s bodies, shouldn’t we be ok with that? It would reduce babies born out of wedlock for those who push the sanctity of marriage and family…
I saw an amusing meme regarding some Southern politicians that continue to restrict abortions. It was something to effect that “those Southern gentlemen who fight against abortion should be made to sign a contract before having sexual relations with a woman guaranteeing that he will not impregnate her.
Statistics about the unborn are interesting. Did you know that fewer children are born due the requirement of a car seat than are saved from it? NPR did a great story with crash test experiments and detailed analysis of real crash injury reports. Many parents choose not to have a third or fourth child because of the economic needs associated with the larger vehicle needed to accommodate the child car seat(s). Not that any of this is remotely related to Covid or the impact of masking to prevent communicable disease for the children that are here.
I would love to see those who want to defund welfare programs, childcare programs, adoption/foster impacts and the associated rise in abortion statistics. Again, a better focus on a society that benefits everyone would reduce the need/desire for abortions. It should also be noted that abortion laws (which can only directly impact females and the fetus that is entirely dependent on the mother and no other human) are written by groups that are predominantly male and voted on by governments that are predominantly male in a country that is majority female.
Alex,
Im certain your view on protecting rights vs what is right extends to the 800,000 unborn children that are “discarded” in the US every year in the name of a women’s personal rights…
yes that stat is right – every year we abort more babies in the US than we have had covid deaths – nothing to see here 🙂
Masks work to prevent airborne disease. This fact has been verified through countless studies and over a hundred years of historical evidence. I don’t know where you guys get your information from but 99 out of a hundred doctors agree that masks work (even for children) to reduce the spread of disease. It is a physical barrier that reduces the energy of the particles thus reducing the spread. That’s basic physics. Citing the 1 out of 100 who has a different opinion is not without some merit but should probably be given 1% of the weight when determining the best course of action for you, your family, and your community.
There are a group of families who have filed a lawsuit against Florida for not allowing the mandates of masks in school under the Americans with Disabilities Act.
One couple has a 10-year-old who is immuno-compromised and too young for a vaccine. The mother said, “If we don’t have enough kids wearing masks, that effectively makes it unsafe for my child to go to school at all,”
There is no way in hell I would send my immuno-compromised child to school just because masks have been mandated, thereby depending on a bunch of 10-year-olds to properly wear a mask. In fact, I wouldn’t trust the masks to protect my child even if it could be guaranteed they were all worn properly. I doubt these parents are going to feel their children are safe even if everyone in school is wearing a mask. But, I guess feeling a bit of control in these trying times is comforting nonetheless.
Alex, everything I read about kids and masks says masking makes no difference. One study suggests it makes it worse. Brown University Professor Emily Oster has a dashboard.
Vaccines, seatbelts/car seats (somehow I survived without either in parent’s cars) but they clearly work. Masks don’ matter with kids. So why force the parents to do something that is not effective?
We are too focused on rights and not focused enough on the responsibility to the society that enables those rights (like the current concern for women’s rights in Afghanistan). Parents are in the driver’s seat but still have to follow the laws that require seatbelts, child safety seats, etc (can’t legally drive drunk either for the welfare of other drivers). The same people that want a physical barrier on the southern border can’t grasp the concept of a physical barrier on their body’s point of entry (intelligent individuals vs particles; which would a barrier work better on…). People who complain about dirty masks seem to miss the concept of changing clothes once they get dirty (hate to see their underwear). You need proof of vaccination to attend public school because vaccines are proven safe and effective (public good outweighs personal interests). And remember that your rights end once they interfere with another person’s rights (just as you don’t have the right to hit someone, you don’t have the right to hit them with your diseases).
On a positive note, the commentary has improved greatly since 2020 and election time. There is no end to the wild claims vehemently strewn about. Covid has killed more people than cancer? Covid is the deadliest virus on the planet …in all of history? Bwwahahahhaaha! Please people! you’re killing me!
All time total Number of “COVID DEATHS” from 2019 to present: (AKA anyone who tests positive for covid regardless of cause of death) 4.3million or around 2.15m per year.
Deaths CAUSED by covid UNKNOWN.
Compare that to REAL reports Number of deaths on the planet in only 1 year 2017: 56million
17.79 million CAUSED by cardiovascular
9.56 million CAUSE cancer
…….. check for yourself.
https://ourworldindata.org/causes-of-death
Idiots. up until 2017- before the covid excuse to do whatever was necessary to make corporate dictatorship official- In Global burden of disease studies, EACH death had ONLY 1 specific cause.
But since there isn’t any virus deadly enough to justify any of the insane mandates on their agenda, it was necessary to artificially pump up the numbers just to have something- ANYTHING AT ALL- to back up all the hype and supply adequate fuel to keep the fear and hate mongers burning. They have changed the criteria for reporting the burden of disease from 1 specific cause of each death to a very broad category LOOSELY defined as COVID-RELATED deaths and carelessly named: COVID DEATHS. This is NOT the number of deaths CAUSED by covid. They have been recording the deaths of everyone who tests positive for the virus as a “COVID DEATH”- without regard to the 1 specific cause of death. In 2020 it was calculated that only 6% of “COVID DEATHS” where actually CAUSED by covid. To date there are only 4.3 million “covid deaths”. A global death rate of 0.05%. But the rate of deaths CAUSED by covid is closer to 0.003%. The idiocy displayed in this commentary is UNBEARABLE. I swear I’m so disgusted by the overwhelming evidence of TSTL (Too Stupid To Live). I’m ready to pick up a banner and lead the campaign for IMMEDIATE global depopulation.
TY, Tara! If you’re jabbed and wearing a mask, why worry about anybody who isn’t jabbed/vaxxed/masked? Is you mask not working? Is your jabbed body vulnerable to virus? Why worry if you’re jabbed and masked? I learned in kindergarten to cover my mouth when I coughed, sneezed. I learned at age 4 to wash my hands after going to the bathroom. In the 58 years since then I don’t think the CDC has come up with any new, startling news regarding personal hygiene.
You know what I don’t get? If people choose not to get vaccinated, then get Covid, well, then, that’s on them. If those who got vaccinated still have to worry about getting it because of all the unvaccinated who are still spreading it, then the vaccine is untrustworthy and what are we even saying at that point?
I am so sick of this incessant Covid talk. Get vaccinated, they are telling us it works. Get a booster when it’s recommended. Don’t get vaccinated, it’s your choice. It’s time to move on and accept that Covid will rear its ugly head just like so many other awful illnesses that aren’t used to literally put the fear of death in everyone, all day, every day.
Many months ago I stopped watching all news shows. My life got so much better.
Will this site ever be updated, or will it remain as a memorial to all the schmucks who “thought” Covid was over? Does the community not deserve to be updated on the latest numbers during thus upward surge with the Delta variant?
Covid is over brother. Much to the dismay of those who don’t like America…
What happened to updates?
Seems a little odd that the peak of ever media data graph is almost literally inauguration day…
Death rate is going down. To put it in perspective, OK, actual data, the 7-day average on May 1 was 60, now on June 1 it’s 52. Problem is, because coding deaths as COVID-19 related is more profitable for Medical providers, particularly for Medicare cases, the FDOH is now going back 6, 9, even 12 months re-coding deaths into the COVID-19 bucket – this definitely inflates the daily number being reported in the news. You can see this on the FAU COVID Dashboard. They do go back and take some out of the COVID bucket, but there are far less of those. The highest amount of deaths in the past two months, based upon actual date of death, was on April 1, and that was 67.
Every day I thank my lucky stars that I live in the Great State of Florida. We are neck and neck with Maine as having the highest percentage of residents > 65 in the entire Country, yet our death rate with (not from) COVID is 26th in the nation. Better than NY, NJ, Conn, Illinois, Michigan, Penn, Nevada, all masked up and locked down for almost 14 months.
Death rate Lags. Has for a year now but somehow seems to blow peoples mind when the data does or doesnt match their political slant
Tara pointed out that new cases and hospitalizations are dropping, so why emphasize the death count? Supposedly, people getting COVID now will have milder cases and FEW will die, so why is the death rate constant (is the death RATE actually going up? No that can’t be true)? Most likely, there is alot more COVID out there than these graphs show. If most new cases are young people, their symptoms may be so mild that they don’t get tested. But of that number, 5% end up in the hospital and 5% of them die (i.e., .25% of the total). So a level death rate when the other numbers are going down shows me that new cases are being under-reported.
Bottom line is: “This Thing Should Be Over, so Get the Vaccine”.
“The Biden administration stopped a State Department investigation launched late last year into whether the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab”
Looking at the graphs, cases are falling, hospitalizations are falling, deaths are level. Death levels have historically followed the others. I don’t think picking the one of the three that is not falling accurately signifies anything.
William Wallace says when vaccinated people are allowed to take off their masks everyone else will also. I think that explains Florida’s pretty constant death rate at a time that it should be falling dramatically.
You know how lots of people thank a cop or a soldier when they see them in public? When I see a young person without a mask in public I thank them for being smart and helping us all out by getting vaccinated. At least they have to think about what they’re doing for a few seconds.
You lost me at “>3X lower than”. Did you mean to write “less than a third as high of a rate”?
No, that can’t be it, because you then wrote “5.3/100K CAN vs US 15.5/100K”. 3 times the rate 5.3/100K would be 15.9/100K. So if your figures are correct, the rate in Canada is a little more than one-third of the rate in the USA. Doesn’t matter. Different polities, different cultures, different individuals, different habits…lots of factors to weigh, impossible to establish “controls” to turn it into real science.
In any case, the CDCP & Johns Hopkins reports show a very low infection rate & a very low fatality rate (both percentage of population & percentage of those infected).
The last I checked, there were over 100 known probably effective treatments, over a dozen tried & tested effective treatments & preventatives, 3 different vaccines now, & still more on the way. Different treatments are appropriate for different individuals. Get vaxxed, eat your veggies, soak up a few rays, if you have a cytokine storm get to the docs, and remember to breathe enough fresh or UV-blasted or ozonated air for you.
All the rest is hysteria being generated in the cause of power-madness.
With the CDC now saying vaccinated people don’t need masks any more, they are basically saying no one does. Are businesses now going to become the vaccine card gestapo?
This requires re-posting here.
With the long overdue, increasing evidence, finally coming out about the mass murderer Fauci, it’s time for criminal charges be brought against this evil man. Fauci and his NIAID along with the NIH provided grant funding through a middle man company, Eco Health for gain of function research at the Wuhan Lab. Eco Health was also contracted by the WHO to do the investigation into the Wuhan Lab. No conflict of interest there, right? Mass murderer Fauci, the godfather of gain of function research, outsourced this work when the Obama administration ordered a stop to these types of studies in the U.S.
What is “Gain of Function” research? Simply put, it’s genetically altering/experimenting on viruses like corona viruses to assess what gains you can obtain from them. In layman’s terms, bio-weapon research.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Branch Covidians! Let it sink in. Yes, the USSA government DID have a hand in enabling the creation of this bio-weapon. Do you still trust the CDC and mass murderer Fauci? The Chicoms just stupidly, accidentally or intentionally released it and decided to take full advantage of it. Mass murderer Fauci has been trying to cover all this up for the past year. Hence his constant flip-flopping and lies about Covid-19.
I find these 3 graphs to be extremely useful, thanks for posting this page and keeping the graphs up to date. But guys – please update the page! It’s been 4 days since the last update, and current data says hospitalizations are continuing to drop…
Gee Ed,
I don’t know what reality you are living in but COVID 19 started under Donald Trump and gas in Orlando Florida is currently $2.70a gallon.
The China Bio-Weapon Flu Scandemic AND $5 a gallon gas…
… gee, thanks Joe!
Got got’em Ronny, while Blue State Governors are mixed up in scandals, killing people in Nursing Homes, and getting recalled, you are using common sense and letting people return to normalcy. Keeping Draconian measures in place is actually causing people not to want to get vaccinated because there is no incentive to do so. He was the first to recognize that 65+ needed to be prioritized and it paid huge dividends. In DC, despite being vaccinated, you can’t even dance at your own wedding. 96% of DC votes Democrat every time, so you deserve that. Buy some popcorn and wait and see all the lawsuits filed by liberal local leaders to wear their two masks longer.
@William_Wallace exactly. These despicable Branch Covidian Capital District Kommissars will try to weasel something for sure or run under the nearest rock with their tails between their legs to lick their wounds. It will also be interesting to see what the filthy child abusing Scruel Superintendent Hanna and the child abusing Scruel Kommissars will do about forced muzzling of the kids.
Welp DeSantis just dropped a nuke on all the local gov’t Covid restrictions. It will be interesting to see how Leon county tries desperately to hold on to their mask mandate.
The China Bio-Weapon Flu Scamdemic numbers have been fudged from the get-go. There was no greater display of the disconnect from reality than a half-empty vaccinated session of Congress, all fart-distancing and wearing face diapers, as they listen to CCP puppet and Dementia patient berate our Republic and share their plans to destroy it.
when it comes to mask mandates, Joe Biden is the Village Idiot.
If anyone wants living proof that Democrats really revel in controlling their constituents, look no further than Mayor Demings and Nancy Pelosi. They have now moved the goalposts once again, or actually created brand new ones, to take off the face diapers. They, and many other Dem leaders are now saying a certain percentage of people have to get the Trump vaccine first. Of course they aren’t considering all the people who have already built up immunity the old fashioned way. At last count 2.2M cases in Florida alone that we know about via testing – that’s ~ 10+% of the population. We know millions more weren’t sick enough to bother getting tested but now have antibodies and/or “T” cells. Yes, scientific studies have shown that natural immunity lasts as long as immunity via vaccine.
Of course now Governor Murphy of NJ is saying you can’t vote without a mask on. Where is Stacy Abrams when we need her? This definitely sounds like voter suppression to me but silly me, we know that only cuts one way.
“Give me Liberty or give me death”
If only aborted babies had that “choice”
The abortion analogy is interesting paradox to the covid debate:
Liberals – your free to kill roughly 800,000 babies a year (yes that number is accurate) – meanwhile 1 death is to many and we are sitting at far fewer covid deaths 500 k plus (that’s 7 any 7 months of abortions you want to pick out of last 10 years)
Conservatives – my freedom prevails and if some people have to die then so be it – meanwhile there have been some tragic scenes in hospitals across US that could have been mitigated with a little more care and simple common sense.
Steve and staff at TR. Thanks for continuing to post this info. I appreciate all you do. Also, time for a fresh page 😉
The current covid logic behind the CDC and the White House is so confusing. The vaccines are wonderful and are available to all adults now. However, after somebody is vaccinated they must continue to live like they are not and mask up, avoid crowds and indoor settings to protect those people who choose not to get vaccinated. I guess we should follow Biden’s example and mask up for those super-spreader Zoom calls.
Wrong, sir… our rights are individually possessed, God-Given, and inalienable. Our Constitution was crafted and codified as a legal means to protect our rights from Government infringement and intrusion. Neither you, nor any government, nor Dr. Frauchi and his white robe wackos has any power or standing to infringe upon my God-Given rights.
As for my rights causing impact to others… tell that to the baby that screams in agony as a Planned Parenthood intern severs her spinal cord and ends her life… then has the audacity to call it “healthcare”.
Sell your snake oil elsewhere
No, sir. That is merely a statement of belief. Your belief that you are welcome to it.
An individuals rights (whether granted by God or not) are ensured by the government/society. Any claim of individual right must respect and support that government/society or it will not be able to defend your rights in the future. This is why we should show we care about each other and wear facial coverings (just like how we shouldn’t have to see you naked).
Your rights end where the next person’s begin. Please consult US Supreme Court precedent for details.
Your individual paranoia and beliefs do not take precedence over the rights of others.
THIS… is logic
Your individual rights end once they interfere with the rights of other individuals. Not wearing a mask can increase the likelihood of disease spread and interfere with the rights of other individuals. Thus, you do not have a right to not wear a mask when instructed to do so around others.
This is logic. If both premises are true and the structure valid, you must accept the conclusion.
“My Body; My Choice”… it’s not just for killing innocent babies.
https://tallahasseereports.com/2021/04/21/two-charts-show-positive-trends-for-florida-in-coronavirus-battle/#comment-251004
“excuses by Emperor Cuomo as to why so many died in Nursing Homes in his State.”
“person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious”.
Yep. Normally, nursing facilities are infected by visitors and employees. After prohibiting visitors, the better nursing homes setup temporary housing for employees.
Recovering patients test positive for antibodies, though aren’t infectious. It’s unlikely that recovering patients infected nursing homes.
BTW, Florida’s “pneumonia” deaths were about ten times Florida’s usual true pneumonia deaths, and multiples higher than Florida’s official covid deaths.
In the past, many of our brave men and women went to war to protect our citizens. Many died. Is it really that hard to get a vaccine that has little to no chance of killing you?
lunzy makes a good point. We would still need to get vaccinated, but the government may stop encouraging it. If the CCP really did cook up this virus in order to break the Western economies, then who’s side are you on if you choose to prolong and intensify its effect?
The current vaccines have already proven themselves (jury still out on J&J??), so this isn’t the time to worry about the future need for boosters or future changes in political policy. Exercise your personal freedom and do what you know is right at this time. “Get the shot, while you still can!”.
Dr. Mark, I like your choice of words, every time a new virus is “hatched”. So pretty much we’re agreeing that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is still not happy about the lucrative trade arrangement they had being torn to shreds by the previous administration and will therefore continue to cook up new bioweapons to unleash on the US and the rest of the World. Of course if the new administration, who is very chummy with the CCP, reverses course and starts giving away the farm again, do you still think we’ll need to get all of our shots?
The demand for personal freedom over societal responsibility is the same freedom that allows the virus to thrive, mutate, and make things worse. There is a cost to all freedom.
With these great vaccines available, mutation of the coronavirus is the only thing that can screw things up. Every time a new virus is “hatched” there’s a small chance of a bad mutatuion happening. So if 10 million people each have 10 billion corona viruses in them and that makes a 70% chance of a bad mutation (among the 100 trillion repications) then our odds of a new pandemic breaking out are higher than 50-50. But, that chance drops to 0.07% if only 100,000 people have 1 billion viruses (milder disease) in them.
Sad to say, 98% of Americans eyes just glazed over because schools haven’t taught math and science in 40 years. So, the interpretation is “with full vaccination we might have a breakout pandemic every 100 years, but with only 50% vaccination it could be more like 1 year”. Choose Wisely!
The media. What can you say?
Today, Anderson Cooper was on CNN and educating on Covid.
***********************
BREAKING NEWS
Even the mild cases of Covid need to be stopped.
If you had Covid before and survived it, you have a 60% higher chance of dying from it if you get it again, than people who have never had it before.
If you’ve had it before and think you are OK, you could experience adverse effects …heart failure, kidney failure, and more……
And some people who’ve had it are experiencing brain fog and other body symptoms that have not gone away.
Even with vaccines, we cannot stop taking precautions.
****************************
If that is really our situation, then I am just glad that at my age, I’ll be checking out soon.
I compare and contrast media coverage to get to try to get to some ‘truth’ if possible. I also read the reports directly when available. Our lack of pandemic preparedness, lack of planning/implementation, and lack of national participation is shameful. Regardless of how you feel about Covid, I would hope that our failings would drive us to try to address these issues before the next one hits.
Steve Good Point – perhaps this board should just be resigned to:
“Desantis is a jerk – killing all”
“Biden will kill our stock portfolio”
Really no reason to try and talk about how 2 sides can come to a meaningful compromise.
Instead lets continue the fear mongering and hate language that has made us all sheep to the whatever media outlet feeds your tiny little mind.
Super Productive!
So, what does everyone think about DeSantis getting the Covid-19 vaccine in private and not publicly doing so to raise awareness and encourage participation?
He thinks it works well enough to protect himself…
Why has it become a Republican thing to refuse the vaccine and Democrat to take it? Wasn’t it Pres Trump who took unprecedented measures to make these available in record time? I say, “Take one for the Gipper!” and let’s get this awful pain completely behind us. Republicans should be all over this solution that could only come from our competitive Capitalist system and was spurred by their leadership. Dems will be glad to take the credit in your absence/silence 🙁
Tony and Alex, get a room…
I think you make alot of valid points. I’m not sure we are that far off from what we think. My issue is the randomness of the restrictions and how correlated they seem to be with one’s politics. Child labor laws make sense and we’re federally made and have stood the test of time regardless of the administration. We have local states making random rules that quite frankly do not seem to be based on science but centered on political appeal. This causes a visceral reaction from those that don’t agree to rebel to what feels arbitrary. There doesn’t seem to be a strong correlation of restrictions to better data in terms of restrictive states. If I am a business owner suffering in that state I think im entitled to ask why? As a business owner no one wants arbitrary restrictions and a hand out. That is never going to be the American way. I’m not for no restrictions but for us all asking hey what is working and how can we get back to work sensibly.
Lastly I don’t understand how we pay for this new found socialist better society. It is irresponsible to not run the math of our current federal spending. I’m not saying we don’t look at things but as a nation we have all stopped even considering how we pay. The programs you speak of in the depression we’re ultimately paid for by a bloody war that killed more in a week than covid. To me that is scary.
Freedom is in the eye of the beholder. Freedom of choice means not only being able to make the choice but often being forced to make the choice and absorb the stress associated with it. Freedom from choice seems wrong from how we were raised but we live in a world where more choices are made for us than we realize or are willing to admit. Some by governments and some by businesses; both because it benefits them and not so much us.
Regarding socialism as a response to pandemic, well we incorporated socialistic policies to get us through the Great Depression and we are a better country for it. The social safety nets have granted relief to many over the last century.
If we were more socialistic, there would have been programs in place to assist the business owners get through this and return us to where we were before (just like insurance but on a national scale). Our current situation, left totally to capitalism would have destroyed smaller businesses in favor of the mega corporations that can more easily endure. This leads to monopolies, ends competition, and moves us away from capitalism. A socialistic system to support the people and a free market to promote growth through competition is best. Hence why we need to be more socialistic.
And the country has changed much since its founding, we have been steadily moving away from pure capitalism as science and industry improved. The size and scale of what we can achieve has increased but we have also seen the horrors that this can bring without regulation and respect for the workers/consumers/neighbors that become impacted. This is why we have child labor laws, labor unions, EPA, OSHA, etc. Unbridled capitalism is merely greed which I would hope no one is arguing for. It is only when tempered with wisdom that greed can be of societal benefit. That tempering is through rules and regulations which necessarily lead to some form of socialism as the societal good must override individual greed.
My comment simply is to say if I were a retail business owner who watched my lifes work arbitrarily go up in smoke – the suggestion that this last year was at best a “dry run” for a pandemic response would be infuriating.
If you believe that America was founded on the bedrock of capitalism and individual freedom then it is natural that you would want be as safe as possible without mortgaging freedom to run a business. There would be tradeoffs that would have consequences
If you believe we are supposed to behave all of sudden like a socialized country then of course you want a world of maximizing governmental control with equality of outcome regardless of effort. There would be less tradeoffs but still all actions would have consequences
For me its hard to look at the opportunity that America has represented for 200 years in lieu of socialism and then all of sudden say we need socialism because of a pandemic
I believe we should never give in to capitalism and freedom of individuals. I’m not in the least bit right its just what I believe that’s all – its the sum total of my life experiences. I also believe you are free to believe and fight for a socialized system as I am sure it is the sum total of your life experiences. The American way is to differ in opinion but come together and find the best compromise. A world where there is no restrictions in a world pandemic is ridiculous. A world where there is no common sense to the restrictions is equally ridiculous.
Seems to me Florida Govt. did about the best job of maximizing the principles of safety and freedom as possible. You can quote whatever biased CNN article you want and I’m sure I could counter with some equally biased Fox News article but the reality is markets are efficient and people are flooding into our state and that is the true test of how people ultimately judge the response.
The 3473 people presently in FL hospitals with COVID say ‘Hi’.
Those who have died from COVID are not able to say anything.
Tony
Clarification request:
They say hi because they are also upset that the public did not get behind the pandemic response and thus the economic situation is really the nonparticipants’ fault?
They say hi because our economic system was so dependent on individualism that we were unable to support them unlike the socialized democracies of the world?
Disantis AKA minni trump is a freaking idiot!!
Alex – thousands of business owners in financial ruin say “Hi”
If you did not believe that Covid-19 was a real threat but recognize that the concept of a deadly pandemic is a real thing, then this past year was basically a practice run; a fire drill, if you will. How did you do with respect toward saving yourself and your community? Are you proud of your actions?
If you are saying now that you would have acted differently if this was “real”, then why didn’t you then when you could have proved it?
How much faster would we be getting back to normal if we all participated like we are supposed to?
Jon, I think I can go with that line of thinking. It’s kinda like all these people didn’t die FROM COVID-19, they died with it. For sure noone dies directly from being obese, it’s all the other complications it causes, including hypertension and Type II diabetes, which are the most common comorbidities with COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths. But for sure this is a better explanation why Japan and South Korea are doing so much better, certainly not because of mask-wearing and lockdowns.
In the monologue Maher was really hitting on all the misconceptions and panic porn that has come with COVID-19, and noone is being held accountable. “The vast majority of Democrats incorrectly overestimate the probability of being hospitalized from COVID, with 41 percent believing it’s at least 50 percent while only 10 percent of Democrats correctly said that the probability is only 1-to-5 percent.
Your facts matter you mean, not mine? That study doesnt link obesity to the deaths, it just says more deaths in fatter countries. Again, when you actually look at the people who died, obesity isnt the problem, age is. Which is why old people make up 80% of deaths. Even if youre obese, you have a 99%+ chance of survival.
Just go to any retirement home. Very few obese people. They don’t make it to the retirement home.
Facts Matter,
LONDON (Reuters) – The majority of global COVID-19 deaths have been in countries where many people are obese, with coronavirus fatality rates 10 times higher in nations where at least 50% of adults are overweight, a global study found on Thursday.
The report, which described a “dramatic” correlation between countries’ COVID-19 death and obesity rates, found that 90% or 2.2 million of the 2.5 million deaths from the pandemic disease so far were in countries with high levels of obesity.
The study analysed the COVID-19 death figures from Johns Hopkins University in the United States and the World Health Organization’s Global Health Observatory data on obesity.
Strikingly, the authors said, there is no example of a country where people are generally not overweight or obese having high COVID-19 death rates.
“Look at countries like Japan and South Korea, where they have very low levels of COVID-19 deaths as well as very low levels of adult obesity,” said Tim Lobstein, an expert advisor to the World Obesity Federation and visiting professor at Australia’s Sydney University who co-led the report.
“They have prioritised public health across a range of measures, including population weight, and it has paid off in the pandemic.”
By contrast, the report found that in the United States and Britain, for example, both COVID-19 death rates and obesity levels were among the highest.
The United Kingdom has the world’s third-highest coronavirus death rate and the fourth-highest obesity rate – 184 COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 and 63.7% of adults overweight, according to WHO data – followed by the United States, with 152.49 COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 and 67.9% of adults overweight.
TAL. He’s wrong though. In the latest report on over 500000 deaths obesity is only mentioned in 20,000 of them. Certainly it increases your risk, but it’s not the main focus here.
Really good monologue by Bill Maher on COVID and the job being done by DeSantis vs Cuomo and other blue state Governors. Not a huge fan of Maher by any means, but at least he’s spewing facts.
“I think a lot of people died because of Trump’s incompetence and I think a lot of people died because talking about obesity became a third rail in America… it is the key piece of the puzzle, by far the most pertinent factor, but you dare not speak its name.
“Imagine how many lives could have been saved if there had been a national campaign ala Michelle Obama’s ‘Let’s Move’ program with the urgency of the pandemic behind it,” Maher continued. “If the media and the doctors made the point to keep saying, ‘But there’s something you can do,’ but we’ll never know because they never did because the last thing you want to do is say something insensitive. We would literally rather die. Instead, we were told to lock down. Unfortunately, the killer was already inside the house. And her name is Little Debbie.”
FIGHT.. FIGHT..FIGHT. That’s all anyone in this country is doing now. Be silent, listen, and Don’t believe ANYthing except your own intuition!
Yep, that whole box of masks and lockdowns are really paying dividends in Michigan and other Blue States. Also great job by Fauci and the CDC striking fear in everyone about getting the vaccine. First there was no benefit, no relaxation of restrictions by getting it, now you’re discouraging people from wanting to get it after 6 bloodclots, and zero deaths from 6.8M doses administered. Great job.
Real news reporting would have included the awesome job Publix has been doing for years now in providing flu vaccines (yep, they are experienced in giving vaccines!) as well as that there was/is a CVS in Belle Glades that offers the vaccine so no need to drive 20 minutes to the closest Publix.
They would have gotten into the real reasons some segments of society are not getting vaccinated to same degree as others so we better understand and can help. Why didn’t they report that 83% of English speaking Asian-Americans support getting vaccinated (state they will or will probably get vaccine) and African Americans are much less inclined (42%). Could that play into why their actual vaccination rates are lagging? BTW, white and Latin are in between those groups.
The fact that mainstream is allowed to so blatantly mislead, and IMHO their peeps meekly allow themselves to be spoon fed their narrative, is so disturbing. The lack of honest news reporting is the single biggest existential threat to this country. Look at the fact that they are not questioning the POTUS on his misleading Jim Crow statements relative to Georgia.
People of all positions and points of view should not allow the news to mislead or misreport to support a certain narrative… its the death of being the single check on bad politicians…
Dave Kerner the democratic Mayor of Palm Beach County said the 60 Minutes story was ‘intentionally false’ and debunked their whole narrative. If Gov DeSantis helped get vaccine in the biggest grocery chain in Florida I don’t see that as a bad strategy to speed up the vaccination efforts.
How false is the 60 Minutes story on Ron DeSantis and Publix? False enough that the Democratic mayor of Palm Beach County, Dave Kerner, has released a statement noting that it is not just based on “bad information” but is “intentionally false.” Mayor Kerner says that he offered to talk to 60 Minutes himself, but that CBS declined. He says Palm Beach County asked for the Publix relationship, and that CBS knew that but “left it out because it kneecaps their narrative.” He says that the media is “hellbent on dividing us.”
Media is obsessed with trying bring down DeSantis a notch. He is surging and putting his Blue State peers to shame despite Florida’s heavy 65+ population.
So once-respected media outlets like 60 Minutes have now been enabled to tell so many half-truths that they are in reality, and knowingly, lying.
They pick a wealthy area that received Covid vaccines in mid-January and pick a poor area that did not receive vaccines until later, and then create a narrative that says DeSantis favored the wealthy. They did not mention that many poor areas received the vaccine in mid-January and many wealthy areas did not. Half truth.
They insinuate that Publix donated to the DeSantis campaign in return for vaccine distribution rights. All major corporations donate to one campaign or another. Another half truth.
At some point, half truths can be presented in such a misleading way that they really are lies. That’s what 60 Minutes did.
I loved Publix’s response to that shameful 60 Minutes piece:
A spokesperson for Publix Super Markets provided the following statement to 60 Minutes:
“The irresponsible suggestion that there was a connection between campaign contributions made to Governor DeSantis and our willingness to join other pharmacies in support of the state’s vaccine distribution efforts is absolutely false and offensive. We are proud of our pharmacy associates for administering more than 1.5 million doses of vaccine to date and for joining other retailers in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia to do our part to help our communities emerge from the pandemic.”
Im already been back to normal. Just waitin for yall to catch up.
Debi,
It seems Faucci is after more than just the science. He considers nothing but the darkest alternative with little regard to the tradeoffs that I think we can all agree need to take place to run a country the size of America and built on the principles of freedom and capitalism. Hes on every talk show possible. Hes throwing out first pitches in Baseball games. These do seem like the characteristics of a narcissist. All the talk about trumps personal finances – I would truly like to know what things Faucci is invested in as my suspicion is his motives are not completely altruistic. Like all things – there is some good in what he is trying to say but just blanket skepticism when there is tons of data that shows how to minimize the impacts of covid without destroying lives of others who built legitimate businesses.
I love your point about listening if the name calling is dropped. I don’t like the notion that in the end he is wrong. We all have beliefs that are the sum total of our life experiences. Yours are no more wrong or right than mine but if we all listen and try to actually understand the other perspective we will do better.
I believe you’re wrong, but I would be willing to your points and consider them if they involved more than name calling.
So… I’m right, but you just didn’t like the name calling. I can live with that.
It’s hard to take comments seriously when they’re nothing but name calling.
Nah… not trolling… just truthing… 🙂
Wow dude, really? Trolling or just ridiculousness?
I wouldn’t let Dr. Fraudci prescribe me an aspirin. He’s a narcissistic NaziCrat clown who did everything he could to undermine President Trump’s efforts. That was his charge, and he received his payoff from Dementia Joe. His loyalty to a warped ideology is responsible for thousands and thousands and thousands of deaths here in America.
Other countries were simply collateral damage. The United States, our President, the America First Agenda, and our economy were always the primary target of the China Bio-Weapon Flu Scamdemic.
Fraudci, the CDC, the NaziCrats, the Media PACs, and the Big Tech puppets of the CCP all have lakes of blood on their hands. As I’ve always said… bombs and bullets are not the only way to take down a nation. Drugs and disease take a little longer, but are just as effective at achieving the goal. It’s exactly why Dementia Joe and his Seditious Sadministration are flooding our nation with more drugs and disease as we speak.
Be smart, be safe, stay vigilant, and watch your six… we’re in for a rough haul folks.
Blind faith in a particular scientist (or group of scientists), means ignoring falsifiability. Whatever they say today is 100% correct, regardless what they said yesterday or may say tomorrow. It also means silencing dissenting scientists as deniers.
An acceptance of Science means an acceptance of falsifiability (new information can make old information false). The classic example is the swan. Scientists claimed that all swans were white until the discovery of black swans. The scientific definition was updated to reflect the new data. Science does not tell us the way things are but rather the way we think things are based on the most up to date information.
Those who complain when scientists update the Covid-19 guidelines don’t understand science. They are merely complaining from a place of ignorance. If it were up to these people, medical science would have languished in the era of bleedings and fear of miasma.
CDC has no credibility, unless you’re a Democrat of course. Remember, the CDC big cheese, Robert Redfield, said masks may offer more protection than a vaccine. What a tool. Out of more than 8,000 federal contributions from over 550 CDC employees since 2015, only five went to Republican PACs or candidates, the vast majority of donations went to ActBlue, over $285,000 total to Democratic candidates.
I guess Covid is now only allowed to travel 3 feet in schools as opposed to the normal 6 feet everywhere else. The CDC should quit while it still has a glimmer of creditability.
So looks like John Kerry is the next in a long line of Democrat hypocrites, this time getting photographed on a Commercial flight reading a book without his mask on. “Do as I say….”. He has to fly commercial now because it’s not a good look having your Climate Czar running around in a Private jet with a huge carbon footprint. But when the mainstream media checks in, you must read from the playbook and say how masks save lives and this was just a brief lapse in judgement. He knows how ridiculous wearing a mask really is, but he can’t go against the Party narrative, not as long as their is one false-positive test where the person doesn’t even know they have the virus, let alone can actually spread it. Sad. Hey John, it’s not Science spraying an aerosol mist at a mannequin with and without a mask on.
Tallahassee people must fly a lot.
In other news TMH is reporting they have zero Covid patients.
Bozos, airliner is the safest place you can be other than isolation cell. Anyway, she’s vaccinated now. Still attached to Trumpnipple.
@William_Wallace
Touche.
Aaron Wood. This is Covid. Logic left the universe about a year ago.
@ N111Z
You claim “DeSantis’ vaccination plan continues to be a giant CF.” and then proceed to post an article about a FEDERAL FEMA site that screwed up and DIDN’T follow Desantis plan and all the problems that it caused. I really hope you are able to see the flaw to your logic (or lack thereof)
I don’t know man Doctor Who is pretty awesome. Time Lord. Although Fauci does convey that he has the knowledge of a common Time Lord so…
Dr. Anthony Fauci is the second greatest doctor in America only just behind Dr. Jill Biden.
This is why: “according to the Dr. Fauci”
In a few weeks it will be open season for vaccines according to the Dr. Fauci. Why anyone would be willing to fly hours in an airplane crowded with strangers to Connecticut to be vaccinated is beyond me.
And I know one diabetic under 65 who signed up with his county has got vaccinated a month ago.
I also know several 65+ who made the trip up to the panhandle weeks ago rather than wait for their county. I thought that was excessive, and chose to wait for my county to open a bit more. I didn’t have to wait long. Now that we are into March, it is actually pretty easy to get an appointment. 65+ or those at risk. I cannot imagine why anyone would fly to Connecticut. It sounds like you had the wrong people instructing you on how to get an appointment.
EVERYONE I know in Florida that’s 65+ has gotten vaccinated. EVERYONE.
Real world.
Keep up the good work and the right Vaccine strategy Governor DeSantis. Putting Tri-State Governors to shame.
New Jersey – 2656 deaths/million
New York – 2500 deaths/million
Connecticut – 2167 deaths/million
Florida – 1479 deaths/million. Below the US average of 1627 deaths/million. Despite being neck and neck with Maine as the State with the highest % of 65+ population
OK well today she got her shot there and couldn’t get one here. Real world vs. stats.
CT has less the 4 million residents. They’ve vaxed 400K. FL has 22,000,000 residents and the vax total is 2 million. Seems like we’re doing OK and CT needs some help.
Percent of population with both doses as of 3/7:
FL: 9.2%
CT: 9.1%
US: 9.2%
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state
DeSantis’ vaccination plan continues to be a giant CF.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/03/07/confusion-then-anger-at-florida-city-vaccine-site-after-rumor-spreads-its-open-to-all/
Only 1 in 10 Floridians have been vaccinated so far. This morning my wife, who has significant health issues and is 7 months shy of 65, is flying to Connecticut where anyone over age 18 is eligible including nonresidents.
Asymptomatic transmission of covid-19? The whole justification for why perfectly healthy people have to wear masks. Not so much….actual scientific evidence, not theory and conjecture, or excuses by Emperor Cuomo as to why so many died in Nursing Homes in his State.
This article pretty much confirms what a lot of us already knew:
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851
“As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious”. Dead virus, meaning virus that doesn’t get the host sick, or can get another person sick, is still being reported as a positive case and the only statistic that CNN and MSNBC seem to care about,
“The absence of strong evidence that asymptomatic people are a driver of transmission is another good reason for pausing the roll out of mass testing in schools, universities, and communities”
You will not hear any of this from Fauci, Redfield, or Biden, because if they said it, they would be admitting that perfectly healthy people have been punked for a year.
Well, what has happened in American now — the ol’ glass of water 50% filled:
Optimist – that glass is half full
Pessimist – that glass is half empty
Liberal – that glass is racist
Our American society values individualism over the collective good. This makes unlikely the idea that individuals would exercise good judgement regarding the benefit to society of their personal actions. Mask wearing is about societal responsibility not personal responsibility.
Regarding the disproportionate vaccine distribution relative to the racial make up of our society, I am curious to know how racial makeup of the targeted groups relative to the whole. It’s all well and good to note disparities but if they are the result of different racial proportions then that needs to be factored in to discussion of hesitancy or unequal vaccine distribution. For example, non-Whites have a shorter life expectancy and so may not live long enough for senior population to be representative of the population as a whole in addition to the fact that when they were born the racial makeup of society was different.
Dominos are starting to fall one-by-one. Mark this down, DeSantis will soon take this a step further and restrict Florida Counties from imposing face diaper mandates.
“Governor Greg Abbott today issued an Executive Order (GA-34) lifting the mask mandate in Texas and increasing capacity of all businesses and facilities in the state to 100 percent”
“With this executive order, we are ensuring that all businesses and families in Texas have the freedom to determine their own destiny.”
What a novel concept, people responsible for their own well being.
“The data suggests that the flu cases are being lumped in to the rest of the cases skewing the numbers. The data also suggests that a lot of other causes of death are being lumped into covid as well. Its really hard to argue that when you look at historical causes of death and compare to 2020.”…..
So because the flu numbers are lower that means they are being reported as covid? I don’t believe that it’s hard to argue the exact opposite because all you need to do is test and you know if it’s covid or flu or whatever. It doesn’t matter what I want to believe, you just need to test to know. What you can’t do is argue that people are not dying from something because the numbers are higher than the prior year. If X number of people died last year (from anything) and X plus number of people died this year (from anything) you can’t conclude that all those people died from the same things as the prior year. They could have died from different things then in the prior year.
Orlando – Might be the greatest place on earth to live right now.
The data suggests that the flu cases are being lumped in to the rest of the cases skewing the numbers. The data also suggests that a lot of other causes of death are being lumped into covid as well. Its really hard to argue that when you look at historical causes of death and compare to 2020.
Covid and the response have changed the way the US thinks about rights and money. For some that is a good thing because they weren’t happy, and certainly those that believe government should be bigger – as no other entity as enjoyed more of a shift of power (hard to argue that). For these people (also the same people responsible for reporting the numbers) its a good thing for the death toll to be more dramatic.
Its natural for the people that liked things the way they were to be upset. The irregularities in reporting and data are glaring. So they point them out. That comes off like they don’t believe covid is deadly.
In the end covid IS deadly. In the end by the time we figured it out – it was too late for mass lock downs to work. The response to this disease has been almost 100 % politically motivated and thus creating a bitter divide.
For now im happy to live in my “oasis of freedom”. Ill wear a mask if it makes people feel comfortable. Ill stand 6 feet away if that’s your thing but I wont give in on the numbers and they suggest something bigger is in play for sure.
I’m not sure what your conclusion is here…that flu cases are being called Covid cases? That flu cases are not being recorded? Let’s consider the face that some people have immunity to the flu because the flu has been around for…ever? lol You know what I mean. So, the flu viruses change slowly and some people will not have immunity to the new variant, so they are more likely to get infected, but some people will still have some immunity. So, 1st not everyone gets exposed during the flu season, 2nd some people have immunity, 3rd there is a vaccine. I myself have only had the flu once in the past 20 years because I’ve been getting vaccinated. You may remember that the southern hemispheres flu season was almost non-existent as well. Also, how many people already had covid around the beginning of the flu season? Covid had the higher numbers out of the gate. I think the more likely scenario is that the flu was not able to spread as easily as it usually can because some people still work at home, some kids are attending in class school, we wear masks at the store, and people aren’t breathing on each in line like they typically do. Yes, Covid spreads more easily than the flu.
It is sort of unbelievable that the common flu has been all but eradicated this season because of masks and distancing but nearly one third of the county has contracted COVID in the past year. So are we to conclude that COVID is 1000% more transmissible that the flu?
Tony H. I get it. The people I see in Orlando (99%+) are wearing masks where they’re required/asked to wear them. I think it’s stupid, but I do it, too. Numerous times people have jumped out of my way to avoid me on an outdoor sidewalk even when I’m clearly 6′ away. I don’t ask them “why the fear”? I’ve washed my hands since kindergarten so that isn’t a new normal for me. In my experience, the people who are always predicting another surge, or describing a voluntary outdoor event as a “super spreader” are problems. But I don’t bother with them. The best policy I’ve read is https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/sensible-compassionate-anti-covid-strategy/ Gov. DaSantis seems to be pretty close to this outline.
So now we’re hearing that the Common Flu has virtually disappeared this year. Of course the “experts” point out it’s due to the mitigation measures used to contain COVID-19, such as physical distancing and mask wearing, and schools and office closures. Yet these “experts” say all of this happened while COVID-19 kept surging – until now of course due to Operation Warp speed and approaching herd immunity.
Do these people really listen to themselves before they publish their opinions? Are even the most sheltered people buying that wearing masks helped with the Flu, but had no meaningful impact on COVID-19? This is so ridiculous on its face it’s not worth the virtual paper it’s printed on. Maybe a better explanation is that it’s ALL COVID-19 now, because that diagnosis is much more profitable for the healthcare providers.
I’m not arguing those stats. TBF my tendency is also in that the lockdowns were more harm than good. I just want to find harmony – not hammer people with statistics. Desantis plan has turned out to work well. To some degree its much easier to argue this point now that you have data. Its hard to argue unbiased that he didn’t take risks. When the dealer pulls the hit card and its a 5 then your a genius to hit on 16 but until you know that card then its just a calculated risk. In real time – if you were someone who truly valued safety then it seemed too risky.
Im just really saying i’d love to see us all seek to understand the other side point of view and try to have a meaningful discussion where we give in when our “side” is obviously made a mistake or is being overly judgmental.
The facts are the facts is a tricky statement when for the most part the are being openly skewed by political motivation based on the source – by both sides.
Even when your facts are right – the strategy of hammering on people with them is not ideal. One of my favorite scenes in the movie Lincoln is when he talks about a compass will tell you true north for sure but it says nothing about the hazards and obstacles in the way. So to just hammer away at true north without navigating and compromising your position will never actually get you there.
There is a semantical difference in spouting an opinion and seeking to understand why someone who lived an entirely different life than you has a different one.
Tony H.
I think we’re all aware of other people’s POV and opinions, but facts are facts and stats are stats. Any reasonable person who googles “FL and CA use different tactics but get similar results in covid fight ” will see conservative, liberal, middle of the road media report the same thing: despite clearly different approaches, results are the same. Heck, the Libertarians at Reason magazine a week ago had a comparative USA to UK. Bottom line: “Despite the stark difference in policy, both countries saw remarkably similar COVID-19 trends this winter. According to Worldometer’s numbers, the seven-day average of new cases peaked in the U.K. on January 9; it peaked in the U.S. two days later. That number then fell sharply in both countries.” Based on the numerous reports, none of which have been refuted, the DeSantis approach is the best. NYC shuttered indoor dining when the transmission rate was less than 2% at these places. The bottom line: A lot of people elect really stupid people. Can you imagine the Democrat opponent of DeSantis running this? Argh!
So what’s the middle ground. How long do we go with conservatives berating liberals about masks and shut downs and liberals chastising conservatives about safety. There has to be a world where we start to see that the other side is just as obnoxious as unrelenting as our side. Why can’t we seek to understand.
Like William Wallace – try for 2 days to post where you think desantis and or trump may have been a little to aggressive and carefree. That there was some ways of communication and planning that maybe just maybe could have helped people a little more.
And Debi – try for 2 days to post where you can see that in a lot of cases the restrictions don’t seem to be correlated to actual results and maybe just maybe are having some negative impacts that can be avoided.
One by one if we realize that our political world view is just as valid as the next persons and a result of the sum total of each of our individual experiences – then we can start to communicate instead of just unloading how the other side sucks.
The whole purpose of the shutdowns and restrictions was to slow the spread and not overrun the hospitals. By every meaningful measure both of these goals have been met, oh and we now have two vaccines and a third (J & J) coming in a few weeks. The case for not returning to normal is getting weaker by the day. If the fear mongers want to wear two masks and stay in the basement they are free to do so.
So tired of hearing the US makes up 4% of the World’s population yet almost 20% of the deaths from (or is it with?) COVID-19. It’s all because of Trump and lack of a Nationwide Mask mandate – that must be it. So what is the explanation for all these European Countries, many of which are doing worse than the US – England, Belgium, Italy with Spain and France right on their heels. It certainly can’t be due to COVID-19 designated deaths being more profitable for the US Healthcare industry. And it certainly can’t be because we have a population with large-scale obesity which caused diabetes and hypertension. Of course we must also believe the data coming out of China, home of the World’s largest population. We need to become close buddies with that regime again. I’m sure they are fully transparent with their death count. And what about India, the home of the World’s 2nd largest population. A Country where they have used hydroxychloroquine as a preventative from the beginning of the pandemic. Not to mention all of the natural immunity they have built up over the years dealing with Malaria, Dengue Fever, and other viruses.
Trump and DeSantis non-restrictive policies looking smarter by the day as the media tries to extend the fear with talks of variants from all over the Globe. “Biden COVID adviser can’t explain why closed California isn’t doing better than open Florida”. That tricky DeSantis must be hiding the bodies, right Emperor Cuomo?
Wonder how much longer career bureaucrats like Redfield and Fauci, and their complicit Mainstream media brethren can justify peddling the fear for ratings from their loyal sheep that mailed in their votes for Biden – even the dead ones. Still waiting for that ever elusive criteria to start opening up EVERYTHING. Has it now become zero new cases, and noone can get sick from COVID-19, like ever again? Local officials blocking fans from attending sporting events and concerts keep saying, “due an increase in cases in the local Community” – or some other gut feeling not based in reality. Yet as we know now, cases, positivity, hospitalizations, and deaths have all been trending down across the Country for weeks. Thank you Operation Warp speed and Herd Immunity.
Does anyone else find it perplexing that in Florida you can go to a restaurant with no capacity restrictions and no mask required once you are seated, but our kids are treated like prisoners in school. I guess we at least have a choice….
If you got kids you better thank your lucky stars you are in Florida. Our kids are in school and exposed to necessary germs needed to help build their immune systems. These kids across the country living in bubbles are going to pay with a weakened immune system because they are not naturally exposed to germs as God intended.
Not to mention the depression and mental problems involved with isolation. Theres also many children who truely rely on school as their outlet from being a victim of abusive homes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There is many more issues aside from the few i mentioned.
Bye bye freedom.
I think history will show lockdowns were an imperfect and needless destruction of a pretty well working economy. Also shows Trump got bamboozled. He wasn’t quite the 4d chess player he was described as. Far from it.
Comparing the average age of death from Covid to life expectancy isn’t valid. Imagine a virus that kills a billion people at an average age of 78. It’s still the same as life expectancy but I doubt anyone would argue that it’s not impactful.
Interested in evaluating the worst case, I calculated the expected survival rate of a person aged 85 or older to be 84.3% from https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html.
By comparison, the survival rate for people aged 85+ is currently 77.5% based on https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics. This is likely overstated because not everyone who contracted Covid was tested, but let’s assume it’s accurate.
At the very least, this approach seems to avoid the question of death from Covid vs death with Covid.
Given these numbers, contracting Covid reduces the one-year survival rate of a person aged 85+ by 6.7%. While this difference is certainly not meaningless, it’s definitely not on the order of 911, WW2, or an A-bomb as was suggested below.
The real question to me is whether or not Covid warranted trashing the economy, families, education, etc. Particulary because lockdowns appear to have no effect on the spread of Covid other than to delay it (as was the original intent), I believe the extended lockdowns were a disastrous decision.
Approximate number of those who have actually died “from” the China Bio-Weapon Flu = 23,000
Average age of those who have actually died “from” the China Bio-Weapon Flu = 78
Average life expectancy here in America = 78 (and the CDC just dropped it another year)
Do the math people. We’ve been and are being played like a Clinton/Biden intern.
I have a question with those excess deaths. When you look at the chart on the CDC website, the excess deaths did not start until Mar/Apr 2020.
I know many people who insist they caught the virus in December. Their symptoms matched those who tested positive later on. One person was hospitalized with low oxygen levels and all tests came back negative (testing for Covid was not being done at that time). This suggests to me the virus was running rampant in Florida in December.
If that is true, then why was no one dying until March/April? I’m not sure it makes sense to believe the virus was weaker at first and didn’t strengthen until it was “found” out.
I’m not into conspiracies, but it truly puzzles me. Also, most things I read downplay any report that the virus was here in December, or earlier, yet I have personal observations of what really looks to me that many people had it.
Flu is spread by the same means as other respiratory diseases, such as Covid-19. Since we’ve been social distancing, wearing masks, washing hands, and sanitizing the flu has not had much of an opportunity to spread. It would be nice if we remembered this for next flu season, eh?
Anybody take a look at the flu numbers this year? By most reports the 2020/2021 flu season took the year off. According to the CDC there has been 1 pediatric flu death this year, last flu season there was 195 pediatric flu deaths. Don’t tell me the numbers aren’t be fudged.
No one is being played. It’s not hard to realize that there are 400,000+ more deaths last year than average. This whole situation could have been handled a lot better, but no one is being “played”.
Average age of those who have actually died “from” the China Bio-Weapon Flu = 78
Average life expectancy here in America = 78
Do the math people. We’ve been and are being played like a Clinton/Biden intern.
I’m curious. What impact does everyone think Covid has on the likelihood that a person aged 85 or older survives one year? That is, what is the probability of survival without Covid less the probability of survival with Covid? 0-5%, 6-10%, 11-15%, 16-20%, 21-25%, 26-30%, etc.
Some masking tape ought to do the trick!
Just staple your nose and mouth shut, follow that with some spackle, and wear three face diapers at once… all will be fine.
Yeah, I know……I liked seeing the actual numbers, too. My only guess is that they were getting complaints from people in the counties with lower numbers. I assume they portion them out by population.
Tara I know. That was the case at first. My point is the website keeps changing. What would be the point of not showing the raw numbers of vaccine?
TR: an overlying graph of 2019, 2020 and 2021 flu cases would give great perspective one way or another. The three graphs of tests, hospitalizations and deaths are great!
N1111Z, what on earth are you talking about? Publix has been administering vaccines non-stop for quite some time. And if poor, rural counties get less doses, it’s because they have less people, obviously. Maybe they changed to percentages because people don’t always understand that and complain that their counties are not getting a fair share.
When I booked my appt. on the Publix website days ago, I left the Medicare# blank and had no problem booking.
There are nearly 5 million 65+ residents of Florida. It is a massive job to vaccinate every one of them, and considering this is the first time a task of this magnitude is being undertaken, I think it’s going remarkably well.
Well, more disturbing changes were made to the Florida Publix vaccination signup website this morning. This after blocking anyone without a Medicare card from signing up, keeping medical and first responders from being vaccinated. Now the amount of doses remaining per county in absolute numbers has been replaced with the percentage of doses remaining. Obviously to keep people from seeing the pathetically low numbers of doses being allocated to Florida as well as the even more pathetically low numbers being allocated to poor and rural counties. Of course DeSantis can’t control the number of doses being sent in by the feds but still the manipulation of data puts off a stench of corruption.
The debate should not be centered on “do masks work?” Its common sense that if you have an additional barrier between you and someone else (and they have that barrier as well) that the spread will be reduced. The debate is whether the government and other citizens should have the right to mandate what you do on private property? This is where our highly divided political views are complicating this discussion.
Each side should just give in 20 to 30 % (like with most other issues). When your around someone you don’t know and cant be 6 feet away – throw a mask on. Be respectful If your around someone who doesn’t do it – avoid them – don’t go on a social media tirade of shame – move on with life. Be respectful.
Masks are no trouble – its the arbitrary destruction of small businesses with little science to illustrate why that is the problem. Lets give in to each other on masks and open up the country so the common man can work and own business like the US is founded on.
There are many articles out there attempting to explain why masks are not working as expected in the real world . This one is particularly thoughtful and pretty thorough: https://theconversation.com/face-masks-cut-disease-spread-in-the-lab-but-have-less-impact-in-the-community-we-need-to-know-why-147912.
The idea that mask mandates somehow work is complete bunk. Miami-Dade county was one of the first counties in the state to impose such a mandate and Miami-Dade’s cases per capita are the second highest in the state only behind Lafayette county which had a large prison outbreak that skews their numbers.
If people in power in this Country, particularly the highest paid Civil servant, Fauci, really cared out keeping people from getting sick from COVID-19, versus getting rich from vaccines. they would have followed through on the copious amount of evidence and clinical studies that show both Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are extremely effective as a prophylaxis. Problem is, once that fraudulent and immediately retracted story from the Lancet Medical Journal was published, the damage was done and it became a political football that caused anyone that touted these drugs to be banished, shamed, cancelled, and terminated. There was Senate testimony about this, but good luck finding it if you search using Google. It’s extremely cheap and been around for 60 years, so obviously no use in trying it. Meanwhile, countries that are using it heavily as a preventative, like India, have a mortality rate of about 100 per Million versus UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and US who are around 1400 per Million. All of those aforementioned countries have a Nationwide mask mandate, except for the US. I won’t even bring up these extremely Blue counties that have had mandates since the beginning and are still on full lockdown 10+ months later. Stop it with the mask crap, because there is no REAL data to back it up other than what CNN and MSNBC are telling you.
The mask debate is i guess hilarious. It is like riots and everything else – binary to the point of which i could never imagined. If you point out some of the obvious over-kill on masks you are an elderly killing selfish jerk. If you point out that wearing a mask where it is sensible then you are a fear monger. I get it – your really arguing your political position. It seems pretty sensible that if you cant be 6 feet away from someone you dont know – throw a mask on. But at the end of the day if someone is not wearing a mask – stay away from them and make sure you do what you can control – wear a mask. Let them worry about their fate.
We had a close divisive election. Its over why cant people who dont want to wear a mask go out of their way to do so in particularly obvious situations and those who think they should have a say in someone else personal space realize that is too far and mind their own business.
What is more effective at protecting you from COVID 19.
A) Everyone wears a mask
B) Lose Weight, Exercise, get Sun Exposure
If anyone on the news actually cares about lives they would be pushing B. At some point everyone will be exposed to COVID 19. Taking care of your personal health is the most important you can do in order to combat both the spread and lethality of COVID.
This virus effects people with low vitamin D, Diabetes, High-blood pressure, etc much more severely than otherwise healthy people.
If you have or are exposed to COVID it will not save you. Taking care of you general health may actually save you from COVID and/or improve your quality and quantity of life.
Focus on what’s actually important instead of arguing about whether everyone has to wear a mask.
There are two possibilities with mask usage: they are either effective and save lives or they are ineffective and inconvenient. How many potential lives saved is your inconvenience worth? So some maturity, social awareness, and morality and just wear the damn mask.
The scientific evidence shows that they work. The anecdotal evidence from around the world shows that they work. The real world evidence also exists here in the US when comparing counties with and without mask mandates within a given state. So the evidence is that they work.
Putting all that aside, if those of use pushing masks are wrong then we have inconvenienced you; not wronged you, not harmed you; not damaged you beyond repair. A minor inconvenience. To be asked to do so little with so much potential gain in life and an earlier return to economic normalcy and yet to complain, to make partisan, to claim it to be a violation; Sad. Please care about others enough to wear a mask.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
The mask hysteria has gotten out of control. Case in point, people were up in arms when Tom Brady was seen maskless walking into the stadium for the super bowl, but it’s totally fine for 50 plus guys to be playing football for 4 hours without a mask in sight.
The stupidity and irrational thought has reached epidemic proportions, pun certainly intended. In North Carolina, the campus “mask police” caused a NCAA basketball game to be cancelled because two college kids, probably not even 20 years old yet, were actually caught (ok, snitched on) partying without a mask on like most young kids like to do in College. What is this World, actually really just this Country, coming to? We keep hearing, “follow the science”, yet the science clearly shows these young kids, and certainly these finely tuned athletes are at more risk from getting in a motor scooter accident than getting sick from COVID-19. Still have not heard of one, not one, pro or college athlete getting hospitalized, let alone dying from COVID-19. Plenty have been hospitalized with concussions and multiple have died from gunshots this year. We all know this would be front page news for days on CNN and MSNBC if they could find a case.
Last I checked while on campus these kids are not visiting Nursing Homes. These Universities stopped teaching useful things years ago, it’s all about indoctrination now. Sad
Edward Lyle-Thank you. Glad to read someone who thinks like me. Esp like latest post. Thumbs up. “fart distance’
Well, according to the DJ Biden Fraudulent Sadministration, even though you got your two shots of sugar water and fertilizer runoff at $2k a-pop… you must still wear face diapers and fart distance… and even though the CDC and the “science” says schools can safely reopen now, Slow Joe and his Union masters say no.
Please, Dr. Fraudci… do tell us more about the amazing and unquestionable virtues of “science”.
So, how many Americans have died so far as a result of DJ Biden’s mishandling of the China Bio-Weapon Flu Scamdemic?
Yes, be sure to wear triple masks even after being vaccinated.
Looking at the graphs, thank God DeSantis instituted strict lockdowns for all bars, restaurants, and youth sports on Jan 7th 2021 and mandated double mask wearing….oh wait he didn’t….
Its the same type of trends you see across all states regardless of “mandate”. Thank God DeSantis had some common sense to not destroy lives at the same time as everyone deals with this pandemic.
Just checking in… Are we all dead yet?… should I wear three face diapers?
I think this message board has reflected the thoughts and concerns of the general population during the past year…from the early days when no one was sure about anything…during the whole confusing shutdown…to the re-opening, and the resulting surge….and up until today.
There have been wildly different thoughts and opinions. And that’s life. This board should serve as a research piece for 2020 in years to come.
FAU has revamped their website. Lots of excellent graphs regarding vaccines.
https://business.fau.edu/covidtracker/data/florida-data/
What percentage of 80-year-olds have survived Covid? What percentage of 10-year-olds? Same discussion.
This board has taken a pathetic turn. I am not a citizen so can’t vote. I vote for conservatives in my home country. I can’t believe people are still discussing if we should wear masks. Most of the people now comparing death rates or stating the number of people surviving were using arguments like this at the start ‘we have bigger killers in USA, flu, auto accidents etc.’. Those aged well. No need to reply I won’t be back.
Most states are withholding 50% of their vaccine doses for the 2nd shot (
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-covid-19-vaccines-administered.html ). Would someone please explain “Just-In-Time (JIT)” inventory management to these bureaucrats! With production ramping up there will be plenty for the 2nd dose PLUS more for additional 1st doses. Gov DeSantis, here’s a huge opportunity to shine!
If you’re going to compare disperate events, you need to be careful to use appropriate denominators.
What percent of those in the vicinity of the WTC survived? What percent of soldiers in WWII? What percent of Hiroshima and Nagasaki residents?
100% of all humans die.
So… how many Americans have died so far as a result of Dementia Joe Biden’s mishandling of the China Bio-Weapon Flu? If Trump was responsible for the deaths under his watch, it’s only “equal” that DJ Biden be held responsible for the deaths under his watch…. right?
99.9921% of New Yorkers did NOT get massacred on 9/11.
99.5711% of Americans did NOT die fighting in WWII.
99.6489% of Japanese did NOT get vaporized at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The numbers are BAD. The pandemic is VERY, VERY BAD.
TRUMP! WHAT A SORE LOOSER.
Such a good riddance. Life is so peaceful now behind our beautiful masks.
Crow magnon went back to his cave and took all the cavemen with him.
Some are still opening their big mouth after such a biting.
They don’t want to wear a mask. That’s alright with me. Let the Brazilian virus strand take them away. Less pigs at the table.
Mask up good people. I doesn’t cost a thing. The new Brazil strain is coming up
and it will not be as gentle. More transmissible, more deadly. Mask up while
waiting for the vaccine.
And now for some positive COVID-19 news.
In Leon County, 293,364 (99.92%) of the residents have NOT died from COVID-19.
State-wide, 21,454,328 (99.88%) have NOT died from COVID-19.
Nation-wide, 330,575,000 (99.87%) have NOT died from COVID-19
Maybe if we stop fixating on the negative numbers and track the positive numbers people would start feeling better and this pandemic would be better understood for the reality it is.
Is the virus disrupting our lives or is it the way it’s being reported that is causing panic, anxiety and fear in people’s lives?
If Dr. Fauci is all knowing about COVID why did it take him 10 months to figure out 2 masks are better than one? Theoretically 5 masks are better than 2 masks but people need to I don’t know breathe and talk. All those in the Biden admin. wearing 2 masks are just virtue signaling.
Ugh. Now I’m going to have to wear four masks to look more pious than everyone else!
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/dr-fauci-double-mask-during-covid-makes-common-sense-more-effective.html
Trying to discern data from US counties that have a mask mandate is nearly impossible since the enforcement of the mandate varies. A mask mandate on paper in a county where the state governor has dictated that there can be no enforcement is practically worthless; like here in Florida. Also not considered are things like quality of mask, other mitigation efforts, the strain of virus in the area, weather, societal acceptance, holiday activities, etc.
Rules only have an impact when properly enforced amongst a public that doesn’t cheat.
There are no real world apples to apples comparisons. The clinical trials indicate that they are effective and i would hate to see how bad things would have gotten if there was no mask usage at all.
Thank you for these charts. Please add a chart for daily immunizations.
Tara, Tara, Tara, and you made my day by your response! Hang in there, Tara:)
This article has actual data that proves what a lot of us already knew for the past 10 months, masks aren’t effective. At least now, after talking ad-nauseum about a better plan for COVID-19, and getting elected running on this of course, Biden admits there’s nothing he can do to change the trajectory. Democrats, the Party of great ideas, i.e. fantasies, but no practical solutions. Congrats to them, the electoral college was decided by a grand total of 42K votes in 3 key states. In contrast, Hillary needed 75K votes in a few key States to win in 2016. Not exactly a landslide or “mandate for change” having a 50-50 split in the Senate, and the Republicans gaining significant ground in the House:
https://www.heritage.org/public-health/report/mask-mandates-do-they-work-are-there-better-ways-control-covid-19-outbreaks
Three key takeaways from the article are:
While mask-wearing can help to reduce transmission of COVID-19, data show that mask mandates in the U.S. and other countries did not prevent a surge of cases.
During the U.S. surge in the fall, 97 of the 100 counties with the most confirmed cases had either a county-level mask mandate, a state-level mandate, or both.
Governments should take more effective steps, such as protecting nursing home residents and approving rapid self-tests for widespread at-home testing
Pitt, I just noticed your kind words. Thank you, you made my day.
According to the Johns Hopkins Covid site, 48 of our 50 states are now green! Very encouraging.
Every 10 minutes someone in Florida dies from covid, yet vaccination centers are closed in honor of MLK day, and no vaccines are being scheduled in the coming week. But we all got $600 from the government last week, yay!
My husband and I recently moved to a new town. I was due for a yearly physical and went to a local practice. I received a text message saying they had Covid vaccines, I immediately called and waited on hold about 45 minutes (not bad at all, considering), but then they said only I could get the vaccine from them, my husband could not as he was not an established patient.
I thought that was awful. Is that normally what practices do when being given the vaccine to distribute? I would have thought with the current emergency of this pandemic, a medical practice wouldn’t be able to give itself any rights to the criteria of who gets it.
I appreciate that folks are concerned about the various political issues of the day—given their prominence in the news lately—but am I the only one growing increasingly concerned by the recently reported COVID deaths? It appears the daily death count has been spiking, and has very nearly reached the peak(s) we saw during the worst part of the summer. I’m hoping people take a look at this and the increasing hospitalizations and take it as inspiration to follow the CDC’s recommendations to keep this pandemic under some degree of control.
Tara, Tara, Tara,
From all of your comments you seem to me to be a nice, caring, empathetic, giving, generous, sweet person. But, the opponents of Trump are not. For the next 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32…..years (and every year in between), Trump will be the bogeyman. God Save America!
I thank God we won’t have to go through another 4 years of hatred for Trump afflicting so many with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Its main symptom is being unable to see anything through the poisonous cloud of hatred always in front of their eyes. Everything points back to Trump, has Trump at the center, and compares everything to Trump. Exhausting.
“it was a coordinated effort to take down the government”
This is one of the most riduculous ideas I’ve ever seen the media push, but I guess some people will believe anything if it’s anti-Trump.
What I remember most about the protests this summer were how many Biden / Harris flags were flown at them. Every. Single. Protest. I saw at least a hundred Biden flags at every rally.
And we all know that the reason Trump lost 60 consecutive election related lawsuits was the DEEP STATE operatives and Chinese interference, not because the evidence provided by his elite legal team was ridiculous. That’s exactly the same as people of color being executed by the police! So as we can clearly see, the motivations for both were identical.
Not only that, but there were daily protests in dozens of cities this summer, literally hundreds of protests, and AT EVERY SINGLE ONE THEY BROKE INTO GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS, THREATENED TO SHOOT LEGISLATORS, AND BROUGHT ZIP TIES. Not only that, but Biden was giving speeches at every BLM protest, encouraging the protestors to march to government buildings and fight. Identical.
Yep, both things are exactly the same. It’s only the LameStream Dimocrats who think anything else, and since they hate America and are traitors, I really don’t see why it matters.
I am kind of confused as to why this page is even up though; I thought COVID was supposed to go away after the election, not get worse. (?) Also, when is Trump going to lock Hillary up? He better hurry! Maybe I can look that up on Parler.
Rioting is rioting no matter what form it takes. Trespassing, destruction of property, looting are wrong no matter what the setting.
The difference in this case is that the capital insurrection was directed by a sitting president and it was a coordinated effort to take down the government. That’s how countries get dictators.
You don’t measure riotous events by how many people were killed or how much property was destroyed, you measure them by who was directing them and what was their intent. And even then, no intent can ever be rationalized because all of these actions are wrong.
But when the President directs people to commit insurrection to preserve his position, THAT is the act that needs the highest level of punishment.
All of the other crimes will be sorted out through arrests (about 300+ in the BL case and about 80 and counting at the US capital).
All this while we watch thousands of people die every day from the pandemic that this website tracks. Very sad.
Alex, I believe the Capitol riots were a culmination of a year of lawlessness and disrespect (the President’s idiocy didn’t help.)
In Seattle, police cars were set on fire, a police station was overtaken, a major highway was blocked night after night, City Hall was invaded, and the Mayor spoke to the protestors and praised them and called them Patriots. 4 young people were killed as a direct result of this accepted lawlessness.
I don’t think we can separate what happened at the Capitol from the the events of this past year. Sure we can find stark differences in each occurrence. But it has been a year of destruction, a year of high tension all around that began with the stress of Covid.
Not sure how we got to the riots, but here we are I guess.
Trump incited a protest. Some of the protestors rioted because they’re idiots. They broke into the capitol and took selfies.
Honestly there were fewer attempts by the protesters to stop the rioters than I would have expected. It would have been easy given how few were rioting. That’s what disappointed me the most about this.
That said, if this was an insurrection, supposedly planned over several weeks on Parler and other extremist apps, by a group of what must be the largest percentage of private owners on the planet, where were all the guns?
I know the media is pushing the insurrection narrative to ensure Trump doesn’t run in 2024, but it’s kind of silly if you really think about it.
Tara
The capital riot was basically an insurrection against the legislative body of our government and instigated by the head of the executive branch of our government. The police response to the capital right compared to the police response to protests (during which there were looters and rioters) is as different as night and day or BLACK and WHITE. There were more police for the other events during 2020 including the ACB hearings and the BLM protests. Trying to conflate the two is erroneous. Nothing compares to a sitting president inciting a mob in an attempt to keep power.
To steer it back to corona virus, it should be noted that the capital rioters were mostly not wearing masks as compared to other protesters during 2020.
Yes, I know, it’s very confusing. I was speaking with some people who were outraged at the Capitol riot. And it was outrageous, to be sure. But, I asked, where was the outrage when 4 people were killed in Seattle, when police cars were burned, when police stations were taken over, when City Hall was invaded. They said it had nothing to do with the Capitol riot, what happened in Seattle was not the same because (*enter justification of your choice here*).
@talesin
I would love to believe your numbers, but if they were accurate the number of cases would be decreasing and the percent positivity would be decreasing as well assuming we were near 75% infected. The trend lines increasing would suggest we are no more than 40% infected unless we are getting infected a second time.
However, if the percent positivity decreases to 3% and the newly infected counts drop to 1-4k then it would suggest your numbers might be accurate. I am hoping I am wrong.
Tara, thank you for the clarification. I am so confused: peaceful protesters or violent mobs, police shooting an unarmed Black person or a Trump supporter killed while assaulting the “citadel of Democracy”, Trump draws 20,000 people and called it a rally or Biden yells at 7 cars and calls it a rally.
.
Pitt, you can get angry as long as the liberal media says it’s something you can get angry at. For example, you can get angry that Trump is responsible for everyone who died of Covid in the US, with the exception of those in Florida. For that, you get angry at DeSantis.
Talesin, thanks for posting. The truth is this virus was weaponized for political purpose and a lot of innocent people were/are harmed/ruined/demoralized, not by the virus, but by the lockdowns. I would get angry, but that’s not allowed in USA 2021.
The CDC estimates that the actual cases are between 8-10x the reported cases. If we take the lower estimate of that…1.4 million reported cases in FL x 8 = 11.2 million estimated actual cases in FL so far. If we say 15,000 new reported cases on average per day for the next 30 days, gives us another 450,000 reported cases or another 3.6 million actual cases (x8) for a total statewide of about 14.8 million out of a population of 21 million. That is almost 70% of the state’s population. Toss in about 1 million vaccine doses given out by then and we’re over 75%, getting close to full herd immunity. Unless the CDC is off on their multiplier or there are a high number of false positive cases, we should be getting close to the other side here….certainly would expect a major slow down over the next 60 days based on the math. Hang in there folks.
With the vaccine picking up steam, can we get a new chart showing total # of people vaccinated in Florida and a separate line that combines vaccination count and people that already had the virus and are now immune? Even though antibody studies are estimating 5x or as high as 8x more infections than the actual case count, at least with the reported numbers we can get a better perspective on the march towards herd immunity. In Florida, since we’re counting Antigen positives in our daily case count, refer to the FDOH dashboard, which inflates our numbers, we for sure know 203,932 more are already immune without having the vaccine – hopefully these people aren’t the first in line for the vaccine. That is only the people who paid for an antigen test, not the actual number which is much, much higher.
“Researchers found that people with antibodies from natural infections were “at much lower risk … on the order of the same kind of protection you’d get from an effective vaccine,” of getting the virus again, said Dr. Ned Sharpless, director of the U.S. National Cancer Institute.
“It’s very, very rare” to get reinfected, he said”
#factsversusfear
Robert, this was not your average Stanford MD, Ph. D. offering a different view. This was a *gasp* whistleblower.
“If you think a Stanford MD, Ph. D. is going to make up stuff to print in a small midwestern college magazine”
I said nothing of the sort.
Robert: If you think a Stanford MD, Ph. D. is going to make up stuff to print in a small midwestern college magazine, then I give you a trophy tin foil hat. CNN? MSNBC? NYT? WaPo? No, Hillsdale College’s Imprimus magazine. Maybe they have more clout than they think.
“A whistleblower complaint filed last week with Stanford University reveals that the Santa Clara study was partially funded by JetBlue Airways founder David Neeleman”
Wait. Are we believing whistle blowers this week? It’s so hard to keep track.
It is not about dissent or not. I am really worried about the direction we are going and pray that something will slow the spread in Florida. Early people in this chat said watch the hospitalizations. We were at 2000 hospitalizations towards the end of October in Florida, 6700 yesterday, this does not look good. Someone told me last week that there is a 0.002% chance globally of dying from/with COVID. As 0.02% have already died it is clear this statistic is wrong. Any research or statistics that are false or misleading can lead to people not taking mitigation seriously, see the reports of NYE celebrations across Florida as an example.
Of course. No dissent allowed. Why am I am not surprised? (I am not a Jet Blue Frequent Flyer)
The science purported by Bhattacharya is incorrect. His case/fatality ratio is massaged to support the infection herd immunity strategy which is very dangerous.
There was a retraction (“update”), see the summary in this article:
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-not-to-do-an-antibody-survey-for-sars-cov-2-67488
Update (May 18): A whistleblower complaint filed last week with Stanford University reveals that the Santa Clara study was partially funded by JetBlue Airways founder David Neeleman
Just found this which suggests that the test used in the study in Santa Clara was not approved… It is a pity we don’t have better data and testing in the USA to help everyone figure this out
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-not-to-do-an-antibody-survey-for-sars-cov-2-67488
Pitt Warner – In the early days we didn’t test. Even if we have 10 times as many people having contracted it as are tested that would put us at 200 million now and well on the way to herd immunity. Given the number of cases in California currently that either means there must have been issues with the earlier analysis or there is no lasting immunity which bodes really badly for the vaccine….
Tom Reagan’s Hat: “Seroprevalence is what I worked on in the early days of the epidemic. In April, I ran a series of studies, using antibody tests, to see how many people in California’s Santa Clara County, where I live, had been infected. At the time, there were about 1,000 COVID cases that had been identified in the county, but our antibody tests found that 50,000 people had been infected—i.e., there were 50 times more infections than identified cases. This was enormously important, because it meant that the fatality rate was not three percent, but closer to 0.2 percent; not three in 100, but two in 1,000.”
Jay Bhattacharya is a Professor of Medicine at Stanford University, where he received both an M.D. and a Ph.D. in economics. He is also a research associate at the National Bureau of Economics Research
Well I cannot BELIEVE that Lee County has suspended vaccinations over the 3 day holiday. Yay New Years! Do they realize they just bumped off a bunch of people? The Feds too? This is an emergency, they should be vaccinating every day 27/7
I have been eating out 5-8 times a week since this pandemic started (except when restaurants were closed). I have also shopped 3-5 times per week at the grocery since this began. And to date I have not yet contracted covid-19. I could catch it today and die from it. My point is protect those who need protection and let the rest of us live our lives and work and do our jobs. I will not live in fear of something that I literally cannot control.
Pitt Warner.. you don’t have a 98% chance of not catching the disease. You have a 98% chance of not dying from it once you catch it (though, depending on other facts about you, that chance could be much lower).
Your odds of catching the disease are significantly higher, and rise depending on how you are living your life (eating out, not social distancing, etc.). You should take the vaccine so the U.S. can get to herd immunity and allow us to get back to a normal way of living without the risk of losing thousands of lives every single day.
I am not a math person or stats person, but pls tell me if I’m off base. I have a 98%+ chance of not catching the Covid virus du jour. And the new antidote/vaccine is 95-98% successful. Why would I take a new vaccine if my odds are just as good with vaccine as not? Please explain.
MJ, it doesn’t mean that at all. TAL’s comparison was apples to apples: average lifespan of those with and without Covid. To compare average remaining life of someone age 78, you’d need that figure for both total and with Covid. We won’t have the latter for another nine years, and I doubt anyone with the data will ever calculate and publish it.
I agree there is almost certainly an impact, but we don’t know the significance, especially when you consider that most Covid deaths have co-morbidities.
TAL – The average remaining lifespan for someone who reaches the age of 78 is 10 years. That means that their life is being shortened if they die from/with COVID.
Some researchers have isolated an allele that puts you at risk for serious illness with Covid just by inputting Geneology DNA from ancestry.com familytreefinder or 23and me. Mine said 4%, which is low, even though i am obese and over 60. http://Www.covidforecaster.com
I think it worked out as well as it could have for DeSantis. We can’t all stay in all the time.
Now they are saying there is a new mutation that is even more contagious. But, luckily, the new vaccine works against it. Thank god for science,
looks like new cases and hospitalizations are trending up… we know deaths lag by 3 weeks give or take.
I wouldn’t take a victory lap just yet… it didn’t work out well for DeSantis months ago.
Tal, I think people blame DeSantis because it is in fashion to dump on Florida and he was a big Trump supporter. Personally, I am so glad to be living in Florida where the shutdown was ended a while ago, and we have not back-stepped into it. Bravo, DeSantis. (I don’t know how anyone could go into politics, especially in this age of social media, where places like Twitter have become cesspools of ignorance. Just go there and search on Florida Hiding Coronavirus Numbers.)
The data means nothing unless you are personally affected by covid such as family member sick or dying. ;( I’m happy to wear my mask to hide in plain sight; and stay home so as not deal with morons driving like idiots and morons at the stores constantly bumping into me. *As you were, nothing to see here, move along.
Really encouraging to see Florida at #20 in terms of deaths per capita with COVID-19. Notice how I didn’t say FROM COVID-19 since we know the average life expectancy for an American is 78.4 years and the average age of death of someone WITH COVID-19 is almost identical. Florida is below the US average by a good margin now and that’s with Florida being just a tick behind Maine for the highest percentage of the population 65+ years old.
Still not sure how anyone could try to say our Governor hasn’t done about as good a job as humanly possible balancing protecting the elderly/vulnerable and letting perfectly healthy people work and try to live a somewhat normal life. I’ll take our situation over NY, NJ, Illinois, Penn, Conn, and Michigan any day. At least we still have personal freedoms in our State, don’t have people coming to our houses checking to see if we are quarantining, having to evade checkpoints at the border, and telling us who we can spend the holidays with.
Robert – The 2500 daily death average is for the country. 95 is the average for just Florida.
MJ: “It is a pity that people still want to politicize a pandemic when the 7 day avg. of deaths is over 2500 and going up. It is not surprise we keep going in the wrong direction…..”
Not seeing where 2500 is coming from. It looks from the chart like the 7-day average of deaths is 95. They printed it on the graph. And though it’s a bit to early to tell for sure, it looks like it may be peaking.
I agree that ideally we wouldn’t politicize a pandemic regardless the numbers, but this one has been politicized by everyone on all sides since the beginning.
I worked in Tokyo for 2 years, masks were a fairly common sight. Mainly worn by people with a cold or flu, hayfever, sneezing etc — a social courtesy in a crowded city esp the subway. You wear it for the people around you, it doesn’t protect the WEARER from much of anything at all. I wear one when required, but mask hysteria has gotten ridiculous. Social distancing and hand washing are key. Let’s not overstate the efficacy of masks. Sure they help some but they won’t end the pandemic. Florida fatality numbers are way way down, that was nice to see.
It is a pity that people still want to politicize a pandemic when the 7 day avg. of deaths is over 2500 and going up. It is not surprise we keep going in the wrong direction…..
You should add graphs to track share prices of the drug companies to see if pandemics are effective at creating shareholder value.
Would be nice to see how many have recovered or been vaccinated.
Are we all dead yet… and if so, do we still have to wear face diapers?
Time to add a good news graph. How about a graph showing the total number of people who already had the virus as well as those vaccinated. Let see the trend towards herd immunity!
I have a feeling that the liberal government will not allow us to remove masks ever… Even if we get the shot. They found a way to take away freedom and destroy us from within. I guess next thing is check points in and out of cities and states and wrong thinking will be punished.
I guess I have to be careful of what I say or they just might come and arrest me for my conservative views.
another mask study from USMC via…
2020-11-16 (5781 Mar-Cheshban 29)
Daniel Horowitz
episode #759: Boston Mask Party; Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease vs. out-breaks of influenzas
Andrew G. Letizia, Irene Ramos, Ajay Obla, Carl Goforth, Dawn L. Weir, Yongchao Ge et al.: NEJM: Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease ? transmission among USMC recruits during quarantime
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717
Navy.mil: masks, distancing, repeated testing, hand-washing, etc., not enough to reduce spread
https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2413465/navymarine-corps-covid-19-study-findings-published-in-new-england-journal-of-me/
Thomas Novelly: Charleston SC Post & Courier: masks, distancing, repeated testing, hand-washing, etc., not enough; spread among recruits despite “strict” quarantine…but not much, imo
https://www.postandcourier.com/news/study-shows-covid-19-spread-among-marine-recruits-under-strict-quarantine-at-the-citadel/article_2a5788ec-2510-11eb-971c-bfd51809ada0.html
Charleston SC Post & Courier: what we can learn
https://www.postandcourier.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-marine-experiment-didnt-go-so-well-what-we-can-learn-from-it/article_b1cdb6de-2533-11eb-840d-9bcd6af9400d.html
2020-12-14 (5781 Kislev 28)
Ian Miller _Rational Ground_
post-ThanksGiving: still no signs that masks work to reduce spread of Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov/novel Betacoronavirus/Pelosi/BiteMe/Cuomo disease ?
https://rationalground.com/post-thanksgiving-mask-charts-still-no-evidence-that-masks-work/
Jesse may be a proud liberal. (Not something I would brag about), but He/She is clueless when it comes to dealing with a virus. Regardless of politics. This is a virus!! Do you blame the common cold on politics?
Jesse, you sure are peddling a bunch of garbage for someone, as you stated, comes here for the numbers. The numbers are all above, just stop scrolling down.
Well, we are all frustrated with this Covid situation and need to vent, I guess. You picked this forum to do so. Better that than on your loved ones. 🙂
Glad to see the traffic ramping down on this message board. What a weird conversation. I am fascinated/horrified that so many people are so effectively spinning a situation like this. I am a proud liberal. On this pandemic, I am a conservative. I guess this is an economic debate? If so, those arguing against ultra conserve response to COVID have literally F’ed the country. Morons have put us in the situation we are in, and now they are ultra vigilant. If not so horrifying…entertaining…sad…educational?
DeSantis’ no lockdown/no mask mandate stance is looking pretty sound at this point. Florida’s covid deaths per million just dropped below the national average.
Dan, the deaths on this site are “by date reported”. The deaths on the Florida site are “by date of death”.
Why does data on your web site not match the Florida State covid website data?
https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/#latest-stats
Thanks
A good read. Both maskers and non-maskers can use the findings to bolster their arguments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/
Most of the studies cited here are really pretty vague and meaningless. They are aimed at whether wearing a mask will completely stop the spread the virus, and people are justifying not wearing masks based on the fact that it really doesn’t fully protect them.
From a “protect yourself” perspective, the very best thing you can do is to constantly wash your hands and use hand sanitizer. Ideally after every contact with something out of your own environment. You can still contract the virus from exposure to your eyes. If you touch your mask, touch any contaminated surface, shake hands, etc, and then rub your eyes, you risk infection.
The upshot is pretty much that, like the surgeon, the mask is to help protect others from you. If you take the attitude that “i aint wearin’ no stinkin’ mask”, You’re basically saying to heck with everyone else.
We seem focused on the fact that wearing a mask, whether it protects the person wearing the mask or the people they might come in contact with, is that it isn’t 100%; it isn’t worth the effort. If you sneeze, or cough while wearing a mask, sure it lets some of the droplets out, but compare that to sneezing or coughing without a mask. Most people spit a bit when they talk. Same principle. Obviously keeping a good safe distance is the third leg in this stool. The only way to be certain of not spreading is quarantine.
It’s really just common sense. If you go outside and it’s 26 degrees out, a sweater is not going to keep you toasty warm. But do you not put it on because it doesn’t?
I heard somewhere recently that sneezing in your mask is the new pooping your pants….
Just to clarify, I am not against wearing masks. I believe we should wear them, and they are certainly more helpful than not.
I think a tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of people are saying, “I ain’t wearin’ no stinkin’ mask”. I think wearing a mask is stupid unless you are sickly or plan to be close to someone sickly but I wear one. The real problem is people like myself are not allowed to express an opinion that is different from the Media, Liberals, or Know It Alls. I think the masking upon entering a restaurant, then taking it off once your water arrives is stupid. I don’t think passing a stranger on the sidewalk requires people to be masked. I don’t think Orange County Mayor should fine businesses $500-$15,000 for not following his mask orders. BTW, it was reported 99.5% of 5,400 Orange County businesses were in compliance. Why make a show of fining 27 businesses unless you’re trying to weaponize the virus for political purposes. Virus is real but political theatre is worse.
I have been following this site (for the data) for 8 months. I have actually been impressed by that intelligence and research capabilities of many of the posters to the message board. That said, this message board is an absolute disgrace. I would suggest to posters—-throughout history, when you have been on the wrong side of right, it has been easy to crawl into the shadows and wait it out. This is a digital record. Your kids can find it….and will be able to 5 years from now. There are probably other social media sites to consider that are far more broad reaching. Erase. Erase, erase, erase.
I have found, for the most part, this board has been a reasonable combination of differing thoughts and opinions, with the occasional name-calling, intolerant post.
This past Thanksgiving, I had 3 previously-invited people who unfortunately had been exposed to the virus several days prior. They said, we will wear masks. Was I comfortable with that? Of course not. Should I have told them they cannot come? That they could not spend Thanksgiving with their family? Should any health-compromised guests been asked to not come?
It was not an easy decision to make. My point is, I did not trust the masks to protect the other guests. I will not be hosting any more holidays until this is all over, I can say that much.
Did anyone get sick?
Funnily enough, one of the people got congestion and a sore throat 4 days later, but has tested negative. Whew! Someone actually got a common cold.
Tara, you shouldn’t feel guilty, or uncomfortable. Based on the early antibody studies I estimate the number of Americans with Covid antibodies to be at least 100 million. ANYONE who has left their house and encountered humans in the last three months has been “exposed.” If you feel you must wear masks when you have family over and remain 6 feet apart. Don’t put your life on hold. Remember Covid is not a death sentence! My health care worker brother and his wife came down with the syndrome on Tuesday. I prescribed the 3-drug cocktail, they had a couple of rough days but are doing fine. They are in their 60’s.
I’m not terribly educated (or maybe I was) so forgive me. Why do surgeons and other medical crew wear masks in surgery?
If your surgeon had a highly contagious virus, would you feel safe as long as a mask was worn during your surgery?
So, then, why does a surgeon wear the mask?
I think it’s so they don’t essentially spit into your body. When people talk small amounts of saliva come out of your mouth. You don’t have to be sneezing or coughing for that to happen. So, even if your doctor doesn’t have an infectious virus it probably is best that their saliva doesn’t get into your open body.
From what I see after reading several things online, it’s twofold — protect the patient and the staff. There are also numerous articles questioning it’s efficiency. The bottom line seemed to be, might as well wear it, it’s certainly better than nothing.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/infectioncontrol/16278
My point, though, was to simply think about how much would any of us trust a mask to keep us safe? Again, I agree that it’s certainly better to wear one than to not.
Sometimes you need to just look at the research. The design wasn’t there to determine if masks reduce the spread, but to see if it reduced the mask wearer risk of Covid. So yes, it is, as I pointed out another data point. There are lots of data points, in fact 50 years of them. So explain the logic that if masks can’t reduce the wearer’s risk, it can reduce other’s risk?????? Why are you so determined that masks work? Read the science………..it is weak at best. I get it…….it is one of the few things we can do and that gives us agency against this nasty virus. But, that isn’t science.
Science does support the use of masks…the paper you linked clearly states “The most important limitation is that the findings are inconclusive, with CIs compatible with a 46% decrease to a 23% increase in infection.” and “The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.” While statistically weak, even it demonstrated a benefit to wearing masks: 1.7% of mask wearers developed Covid-19 vs 2.1%. If that difference, in combination with other measures reduces the rate of transmission from slightly above 1 to slightly below, it would completely change the impact the virus has on the community and the economy.
Here is a study that looks at infection rates after state-wide mask mandates were implemented: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818. There was a noticeable reduction in the infection rates following those mandates.
Further studies:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
The biggest spread is through droplets, then aerosols and a small percentage through formites. Just spray an aerosol can (deodorant, cleaner whatever) at a piece of paper, see how much ends up on it. Then do the same with a disposable mask between the paper and the aerosol, close to the aerosol nosel as your nose/mouth would be to the mask, again see what ends up on the paper. Please then come back and say there is no difference……
A small experiment which I have done at home. If you come back and say there is not a marked difference you are having problems with doing a simple test.
It is not a determination that masks work, it is common sense based on how the virus is known to be spreading.
Aerosol droplets compared to molecular viral particles is like comparing in size the Empire State Building to an ant. But this spiky virus does want to stick to things so it is a bit baffling
Vietnam now has 1350 cases from its 97M population. In the attached article they said this:
In mid-March face masks became mandatory for all people who were outdoors.
Unlike in other parts of the world, there was little resistance to mask-wearing.
Along with a number of other measures you read in the article. Why are so many people determined that masks don’t work. MIB – ‘I wear only where the power-mad people demand, and for least time possible…’
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-23/how-did-vietnam-get-on-top-of-coronavirus-yet-again/12683008
From https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/20/vietnam-covid-economic-growth-public-health-coronavirus
To date, Vietnam (population: 95 million) has recorded 35 deaths from the novel coronavirus. My office building’s response was typical of the aggressive contact-tracing strategy the country adopted from the beginning of the pandemic. During the first phase, the government managed to cut off all the virus transmission routes promptly and comprehensively. Every infected person was hospitalised. People in contact with them were traced to the fourth layer and isolated. Their homes and neighbourhoods were put under local lockdown and sanitised by the army. The country has effectively been acting as if this were biological warfare.
https://fee.org/articles/authors-retract-study-showing-efficacy-of-mask-mandates-as-biden-pushes-nationwide-requirement/
article asserting efficacy of masks withdrawn because of increases in some locations invalidating earlier conclusion; further study required
Masks mitigating the spread might not be debated at the moment, but the science is not only not settled, but is trending toward them not working to reduce the spread. The Danish study was just published looking at 4300+ participants and found no statistical significant difference in being infected between mask wearers and non-mask wearers.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
I wear my mask where I am asked too, but the Swedish public medical director is correct when he says the science supporting mask wearing is weak.
Hi David
A key line for me in this report is
The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
All the research I read says that if all people are wearing mask the risk of infection is hugely reduced. If you wear a mask but no one else is the chance of spread is much higher. There was another survey that said that 85% of people who contacted COVID had worn always masks. The follow up should that a very large percentage of those 85% admitted to eating in restaurants which means they of course removed the mask to eat. As I said previously you can always find surveys but when the research itself says it cannot be used to conclude that masks would not be effective you cannot use it to make that point.
I think if you are around people a lot you have a good chance of getting this virus, mask or no mask. Unless you stay home all the time and don’t eat around anyone.
Of course, wearing a mask can’t hurt, so why not just wear one. I think when it first started being said that wearing a mask yourself doesn’t protect you, it’s the people around you who need to protect you, was when all the brouhaha started. A lot of people at that time were never wearing masks. And when they were called selfish and stupid, they responded by saying, basically, f#ck you. And both sides dug in.
That is human nature and, ironically, a science in its own right.
The link you provided does not provide any evidence that masks are not effective at reducing the spread of the virus as it doesn’t address the key benefit masks.
Masks are far more effective at preventing the infected person from spreading the respiratory droplets containing the virus than they are at preventing someone from breathing them in. So, while that particular study didn’t find a statistical difference between mask wearers and non-mask wearers, the mask wearers who did catch the virus were possibly much less likely to spread it to those around them.
The reduced likelihood of spreading the virus to someone else is why it is so important that everyone wear a mask. You are not deciding if you are going to take a chance with your health, you’re deciding to risk the health of everyone around you.
Thank you tf and TomD for adding some good explanations about the nature of the vaccines! I will be taking the vaccine when offered. It is the best way to get to a point of safety and being able to regain our full lives again! I worked for 45 years as a nurse and nurse practitioner. Side effects from vaccines are VERY rare. Vaccines are safe. I am also old enough to remember many of the diseases vaccines now protect us from – they are the real danger.
We have many problems because politicians have fomented fear in the public surrounding Covid-19. The truth is that we must still take precautions until a majority of the public is immune to this virus, either from the vaccine or contracting the virus.
What has worked well for years and would work IF people would practice these things: wash your hands (this I can’t emphasize enough), stay home if you are sick until you are completely recovered, cough or sneeze in a tissue or your sleeve, protect the vulnerable. Masks and social distancing in public places – are still being debated. Lock downs of whole communities do more harm than good. Get yourself as healthy as possible and don’t put off seeing your health care provider – small problems only get bigger with time.
Hi Pam, I will also be taking the vaccine. I do not believe masks and social distancing in public places are being debated. There is enough scientific evidence to say that they reduce the spread. A doctor on Fox News the there day said we should have been pushing mask wearing more than washing hands in the beginning. When you google for scientific studies make sure you go to the origin, the major research centers and reputable universities. There are plenty of chats where masks are put down but not in reputable reports.
Keep safe.
I agree that lock downs of whole communities do a lot of harm and should not be necessary, but they are a last resort tool to slow the spread when the number of people needing medical attention exceeds the capacity of the health care system. If everyone does their part and follows the guidelines and recommendations you explained: washing your hands (use hand sanitizer when soap and water aren’t available), social distancing, staying home when sick, and wearing a mask (at least in indoor public spaces in case you are an asymptomatic carrier so you don’t spread it to a dozen other people) there should be no need for lock downs…but when people disregard the guidelines and the case numbers start skyrocketing there can be no other choice.
Vaccines are probably already in town by now. They had some in Wisconsin, and a number of plane-loads left Belgium Friday, probably under 8 hour flight to the East coast. I figure a couple hours transferring & routing, then 2-3 hours to other major cities. Just waiting for final FDA approval.
Typically, crazy NY says they will think about being ready to begin to vaccinate EMT/life-squad, medical personnel, fire-fighters… about 3-4 weeks from now. Probably similar in Tallyhassle. Expect 5K people per day.
I probably won’t get vaccinated any time soon, because of evil cousin ObummerDoesn’tCare, Orwellian HIPAA, etc.
There are + & – with each of the various kinds of masks ? ?. It’s impossible to drag in enough oxygen & get rid of the CO2 while physically exerting with most, and the super medical NP95s expell as though you are not wearing a mask at all, so that isn’t blocking spread from wearer. I wear only where the power-mad people demand, and for least time possible…though spray hands & public surfaces with isopropanol, clean up with detergent & peroxide, etc. I think the “authorities” waffle, pontificate, wear them on chins instead of over nose & mouth when they think the cameras aren’t on because masks are only marginally effective & in limited contexts.
Land of the free & home of brave or groveling subjects?
People educate yourself! Do you really think the government is so trustworthy? Anyone familiar with lawsuit lost by the CDC around the end of February
Not one single study in over 10 something years saying they were tested for safety and not ONE study to prove there is not a link and autism when given too early in life. Read up on the ingredients read up on what happens when that foreign RNA attaches to your DNA
Vaccines are far safer than getting sick from the viruses for which they protect you.
Please get your information from reliable sources, not web pages that generate thousands of dollars of add and sales revenue for quack remedies.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/history/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html
The original study that demonstrated a link between vaccines and autism was completely fraudulent: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/
If you don’t know someone who has complications from a childhood disease, thank vaccines!
You are misinformed on how RNA vaccines work. They do not “attach” to your DNA at all. The DNA is found in the nucleus of the cell. The RNA strands injected in these new vaccines never make it to the nucleus. They attach to the cell, insert the RNA to the cytoplasm where the ribosomes are located to manufacture the proteins that your immune system will develop a response to. By the way, this is the EXACT mechanism the virus itself uses to invade your body. It “hijacks” your cell’s own machinery to replicate itself. This vaccine works in the same way, but only produces a part of the virus that is not harmful. Autoimmune concerns with these type of RNA based pharmaceuticals are with protocols that call for multiple injections over and over to correct genetic disorders. This would be unlikely with a vaccine against a virus in that it only calls for two doses to elicit an immune response. These RNA vaccines are a major breakthrough that will change medicine going forward.
Sweden banned outdoor group gatherings of more than 8, not indoor.
Sweden is 20th in deaths (616) per million of population in a ranking dated Nov 20, 2020. The US is 14th with 766 per million.
Sweden trusted their citizens to act as adults and did not cause the loss of millions of jobs for the poorest of their population. The politicians on the advice of administrative healthcare researchers locked down the US and cost millions of workers and small businesses their jobs
and livelihoods. This act increased a multitude of social issues while seem, given the above statistics, to have been ineffective in saving lives.
Now we apparently have elected a very rich politician, who does not stand to lose a penny in another lockdown who proposes an even tighter lockdown in January!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Yes CharlieMac, all good points, but of course I’m not allowed to agree with you because we must all do what we’re told, otherwise we are just minions of the Trump way of thinking. It’s not like grown adults can do research and look at the data ourselves. Sweden only regrets not locking down their elderly and at-risk population earlier, but after months of everyone trying to shoot holes in their strategy, the critics really don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s extremely unfortunate that the Democrats who so desperately wanted to be in charge again were willing to do whatever it took, call it a “scorched earth” policy, to win the Presidency. This even meant putting people out of work, yes, even the ones who WANT to work, not their typical base. It got even worse towards the end when the vaccine was close to fruition, but they had to put out negative press about the vaccine during debates, campaign speeches, CNN interviews, etc, to the point where the people that really need it won’t even take it now.
Obviously masks and lockdowns have worked so well, so why should we try something new like a vaccine with 90+% efficacy. Dems are already on record demanding that masks need to be worn until the end of 2021. These are the same morons who want the US to pay India and China billions of dollars to clean up their carbon emissions and defund the police. Brilliant
Tal – Get off the political soapbox. After what has gone on with the election ‘fraud’ suggestions from the Trump administration to blame the other side for negative press on the vaccine looks ridiculous.
To say ‘Obviously masks and lockdowns have worked so well, so why should we try something new like a vaccine with 90+% efficacy.’ is moronic in the extreme, masks are to get us to the vaccine while trying to have as few unnecessary deaths as possible.
I am not a democrat but believe in democracy before you go off on that tack,
How can an event like Cleetus and Cars be allowed to operate? Watch the videos of 21Nov20. No social distancing, no masks, just utter nonsense. If people are denying (like they did with global warming, and some still are) COVID isn’t real….Smh….Idk what to say to you other than….get your head out of your…
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Interesting…..apparently there was a lung cancer study in Italy with 959 volunteers from Sept. 2019 to March 2020. They tested the blood samples that were taken from each volunteer and 14% had coronavirus antibodies, suggesting it was Italy at least as early as September, perhaps even longer.
https://112.international/politics/coronavirus-in-italy-arise-in-summer-of-2019-scientists-say-56511.html
Interesting…but it doesn’t make much sense on the face of it. How would it be that it was roaming around Italy but rarely, if ever, killing anyone, and once it “shows” in Wuhan it caused a huge outbreak.
I wonder if they could have contaminated the samples at some point? I haven’t looked up the paper, but the article didn’t have much detail. Was it the samples they took back in September 2019 or ones from March 2020? Could the virus have been non-lethal but mutated to something more deadly and that’s when it “showed”? No idea. Hope they look into it further.
This link below is not conclusive but goes into some more information:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3110576/coronavirus-italian-paper-origins-pandemic-hit-backlash
The scientists in this country are pretty consistent against the virus being here earlier than they originally thought.
I know several people who believe they had it in mid December. They could be wrong, I guess, but it’s awfully odd their symptoms were exactly the same as what positive-tested people had.
Also, to answer your question, there were antibodies found in some early October samples, something one can find as easily as one can find the article shedding doubt on the study linked above which, by the way, is from the South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper.
It “showed” in Wuhan, Hubei in 2019 August. Hospital visits, traffic, hospital parking lots, communications traffic, etc.
I figure many people were asymptomatic or thought they had common colds, and the Red China ruling gangsters wanted to “save face” so did not announce it.
2020-06-09 (5780 Sivan 17)
John Hayward _Breitbart_
Harvard study suggests Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov out-break may have begun in August based on hospital & communications traffic: previous efforts had estimated December or October
2020-05-11: Eric Haseltine, Ph.D.: Psychology Today: mysterious blips in records of searches for “SARS” & “coronavirus” in 2019 September & October raise questions about time-line
van Dorp et al.: Science Direct/Infection, Genetics, and Evolution: emergence of genomic diversity and recurrent mutations in SARS-cov-2
2020-05-04: David Cyranoski: Nature
South China Morning Post: time of the most recent common ancestor (tMRCA) of 7666 strains of Wuhan coronavirus/covid-19/SARS-cov-2/ncov
Put your seat belts on, it’s going to be a scary ride for the next 2 months. And a mask would help too.
COVID-related hospitalizations in Florida are about 1/3 they were during the peak in July – 9500 then versus 3300 now. News flash, hospitalizations (and deaths) are always higher in the Fall/Winter months. This is nothing new and is primarily due to the Common Flu and Pneumonia, which is definitely getting blended with these COVID numbers now. Remember, it pays more (Medicare) to put COVID as part of the diagnosis.
I guess those folks in the Midwest that have had mask mandates since the beginning of the Pandemic must need to wear two masks now. New York and New Jersey too,
Protect the vulnerable, and let’s just all agree that we need to get the vaccines and new treatments to the masses, and stop worrying about Trump taking credit. As we all know by now, lockdowns and masks did not do ANYTHING to stop this virus. It’s still here, and exists in every nook and cranny now thanks to Joe’s buddies in China.
Exactly x 100
Masks work. Logically, a physical barrier will reduce (not prevent) spread of any respiratory illness (reduction of potential energy of particles reduces range). Flu numbers are down worldwide because other countries are using them to combat COVID and masks work on more than just this disease.
Lockdowns are not put in place as a cure. Lockdowns used to immediately change the conditions on the ground to reduce the opportunities for disease to spread. Governments were to use this opportunity to improve testing and contact tracing. Regardless of the pandemic, identifying and isolating potentially sick individuals through testing and contact tracing is standard procedure. These techniques are time tested and proven effective.
Medicare pays more when there is a positive test for COVID because it is a real threat that is more expensive to treat currently (PPE, isolation beds, etc.)
Other countries did a better job during their shutdowns when it came to testing and contact tracing. Their economies are already bouncing back.
Most of us are hurting financially from this pandemic and want our economy back that doesn’t mean that the right answer is denial. Just as tourists would avoid a warzone or restaurants/business that appear dirty, tourists will avoid Florida until we get our act together. We needed our state to be a clean, safe place that invites tourists to spend our money here and keeps our elderly safe. DeSantis needs to think longer term as our current increasing caseloads are a direct result of his failure of leadership and focus on the short term.
Not even sure where to begin to rebut most of these untruths so I’ll just state facts that can’t be disputed.
Florida is #14 in the US when it comes to deaths/million and #20 when it comes to cases/million. Yes I’m including DC if you want to split hairs, but since those people get a say in the election, I’m counting them.
This is despite being the 3rd largest State by population and the largest percentage of elderly in the US. I still remember CNN and MSNBC gleefully reporting 2.2M would die in Florida from COVID. Sorry CNN and MSNBC.
People are fleeing to Florida and other Republican run States to get away from these stupid, Draconian measures being employed in traditionally Blue States. Our economy is doing just fine and last time I checked, we still don’t pay State taxes even though crack-head Gilllum wanted it.
If anyone is still hurting financially, it’s because Counties like Broward are still run by Liberals and unelected morons like Bertha Henry,
Other countries, especially Europe, are hurting big time, except for Sweden of course. Sweden treated their people like aduts, and their economy never went in the tank in the first place.
Just the facts please, not fear and hyperbole to try and steal an election,
That’s hysterical, you trying to rebut untruths and spewing out garbage. Too hard to even refute your inaccuracies, but for a start, Sweden just banned indoor gatherings of more than 8 people. Try and keep up if you’re going to play.https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/11/18/sweden-coronavirus-surge-policy/?utm_campaign=wp_todays_worldview&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_todayworld&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2cd0ff4%2F5fb4a9579d2fda0efb6bcdee%2F596a7392ade4e20ee372432e%2F10%2F87%2F749631c8ada26b0c91565dfbbcb63054&fbclid=IwAR0GSfoJoL6dQM-1nUylaVbnd5XESJ2Rckjnpwwow9We0Qfgi8dllq3deLk
Are you saying that Republican run states like South Dakota are doing a good job with Covid? Just the facts please on cases, positivity, hospitalizations and mortality (current figures for example last 2 weeks).
Also the facts on Sweden v its neighbours.
I believe we all need to look at what we can do to stop the spread. We were told by scientists throughout the summer that if we did not bring done the cases to a reasonable level the surge would be much worse, now here we are.
Tal, I see you are on here a lot posting. For someone that clearly doesn’t care about the virus, it’s surprising. You may not care about your health or that of those around you, but some people do, so maybe your time is better served doing something else. You clearly are not going to be a part of the solution here until the virus impacts you or a loved one, which I hope you never have to go through. We have been dealing with this virus since early this year. There is light at the end of the tunnel with promising vaccines that will be here in a few months. Why can’t we all just agree to hunker down for a few months and slow the spread and potentially save a few lives as we wait for the vaccine? I’m not saying shut everything down, just be smart about gathering, practice social distancing, and wear a mask. Is a few months too much to ask?
I see you did not want to reply with facts. Maybe that is because most of your post is your opinion and name calling. If only this was not so serious your post would be funny in its imbecility calling for facts and spouting rubbish.
Rick – Much of Europe is in hard lockdown where you will be ticked for wandering more than 3 kilometers from your house, closing all “non-essential” businesses, and wartime curfews. Meanwhile in Sweden they closed nothing and limited PUBLIC gatherings to 8 people which does not apply to private gatherings. So essentially Sweden has banned concerts. Not sure that qualifies in any way of reversing course in favor of lockdowns. Actually just seems like a highly unobtrusive and reasonable approach.
erm…just facts? :} Pretty sure those are opinions and insults.
You’re drinking the trump kool -aid. Look up the facts. Flu virus is less transmissible than cv19. Cv-19 will kill you more easily. Wear a mask when indoors and be healthy. Flu will be less this year due to mask wearing. Doctors don’t want to see more covid. Doctors don’t make more for covid diagnosis. Don’t you think remsivir/ nursing etc costs more when you got Covid vs flu. Smarten up. This country is being selfish.
I guess we all have a different idea of what “better” is. Sweden’s GDP is in far better shape than their neighbors, please show me something that indicates otherwise. Even more important, looking at yesterday’s data for new deaths in Europe:
Sweden – 4
Netherlands – 82
Belgium – 223
Germany – 244
Spain – 351
UK – 529
Italy – 753
People that watch CNN and MSNBC for their daily news still look at cases as the #1 criteria. Sorry, but I still think how many people are dying is the more important statistic. Silly me
Tal – As you said silly you. Please quote all relevant facts when trying to push your view as you say facts are important.
Deaths per million population for the Nordic countries since pandemic started. In case you are unsure these are Sweden’s most comparable neighbors:
Sweden – 626
Norway – 56
Finland – 68
Denmark- 133
As you said how many people are dying is the more important statistic.
MJ – When viewing demographics Belgium has more commonality with lifestyle along with densely packed immigrant and refugee communities.
Deaths per million:
Belgium – 1,323.23
UK – 803.18
Sweden – 616.4
Netherlands – 501.71
Deaths in Sweden were already on a trajectory three times as high when Denmark instituted their first lockdown (around 7 times higher than Norway). It takes at least three weeks from contraction to die from COVID which would put the first effects on deaths in Denmark at around April 5th (started lockdown in mid-March).
Nordic deaths graph:
https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2020/04/05/sweden-prepares-for-possible-tighter-coronavirus-measures-as-death-toll-climbs/
It was clear before the lockdowns that Sweden was going to suffer more deaths.
You can “protect the vulnerable” by wearing a mask and social distancing, you can protect the economy by wearing a mask and social distancing, you can relieve the pressure on the healthcare system and our essential workers b wearing a mask and social distancing. All the rest of this is political bull.
mr trump & VP has planned a RALLY in FLORIDA! Plans to FIGHT to be re-elected!
Fight thru DECEMBER. GAWD. Biden is gonna take Georgia.
USA PRESIDENT IS A LOSER with an AGENDA.
1000 percent agree
Florida most likely will not have as many problem through the winter for exactly the reasons you’re stating…it’s warmer and the cold/flu season is milder here, so that will help with this as well since it’s spreads in similar fashion.
The areas that actually have the higher rates of infection right now are the areas that don’t have mask mandates. New York’s positivity rate is just now around 3% because, of course, it’s going to go up somewhat during the winter months for reasons already stated.
The area that I’m in was going up up up and then masks were mandated and then, yes, the rate when down. That’s what happens everywhere people actually start wearing masks. They do help and if you do get it you’re more likely to get a low dose, a less severe outcome.
Can’t understand why you believe this crap. Because your god told you I would guess. I did not already say this as I put my email in wrong and it did not send. Not to worry this person could care less. No sense in commenting. It won’t change the deniers.
Keep our eyes on these figures: total current daily deaths relative to average of past decade, adjusted for population growth. And current TOTAL current hospitalizations vs. average of past ten years. Number of covid deaths is meaningless if we do not know the total deaths above baseline (ca. 8,000 per day nationally).
Without a chart to show how many “HOURS” the average stay in the hospital actual is, the new hospitalizations don’t show the true story. As someone who is currently undergoing Cancer treatment, I am getting to spend a lot of time with Doctors and nurses. I am hearing the average stay is less than 36 hours. A huge number is less than 24 hours.
The total current hospitalizations is important and we are up over 50% in the last month. Lets hope it doesn’t keep going up. Near us hear the largest hospital in Pinellas only has 1 ICU bed free…..
My sister is an ER nurse. About 2 weeks ago, lost her taste, body aches, slight fever. Uh oh, we thought because she is also asthmatic. Sure enough, she had COVID. After a couple of days, she figured she needed to go to the hospital. She was admitted, got some treatments, and was released 24 hours later. Yesterday she went for a test to see if she was cleared to return to work. No one else in the family got COVID and other than a lingering dry cough which gets better each day she feels fine. If she gets a negative test, we will have them for Thanksgiving.
Here’s a good site for hospitalizations:
https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABICC/views/Public/ICUBedsHospital?%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&%3Aembed=y
I pay attention to the ICU beds and COVID hospitalizations tabs.
Another good site though it seems to be down this morning:
https://business.fau.edu/covidtracker/data/florida-data/
READ MORE
Four years ago after two weeks in the hospital I was diagnosed with late stage chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and sent home to on oxygen daily. After 8 weeks of using BESTHEALTHHERBALCENTRE COPD HERBAL REMEDY, my breathe completely came back to normal. Last week I was checked by a different pulmonologist and tested and he said I don’t have COPD.
Locally hospitalizations continue a downward trend at 29 total; 9 at TMH and 20 at CRMC as of Friday as reported in the Demicrat
I still see people comparing countries and states as to how they have fared with The Virus. But that’s basically impossible.
Things which must be taken into account when comparing countries or states in terms of their success in minimizing the effects of COVID-19:
* Population density
* % Black population (higher mortality)
* Average age
* Island (or nearly an island)
* Cultural norms of conformity
* Strong states vs. Federal govt.
* Vitamin D exposure
* HCQ use
* When they got first infection
* How open the borders
* How seniors are cared for
* Sex rates and number of partners
* Fake news effect
* Privacy limits
* Data credibility
* Lying about contact tracing
* Which “type” of coronavirus dominated
* Comorbidities
* Population density distribution
* Transportation mechanisms
* Average BMI
And of course you have to wait until the end of the coronavirus everywhere to know how a country performed overall. Infections are likely to return to most places that have it under control.
I get that each country is different. Surely each government knows there demographic etc. breakdown so the response should be more aggressive or less aggressive depending on the risk.
For those touting the Sweden approach they have had restrictions on groups larger than 5 since early on (inside and out) and are now tightening other restrictions.
https://www.euronews.com/2020/11/13/sweden-introduces-tighter-restrictions-to-halt-surging-coronavirus-cases
I might never get over this thread. I used to think, if all of these talented people who play guitar hero actually spent the time to learn to play guitar, they would be amazing.
I wore a mask all year. I also use 70 percent alcohol on my hands when I enter my vehicle from wherever I was. I also keep my distance from people. I have not had a cold all year. I like that. I have no problem wearinng the mask. I’m not going to wear it outside. No one is going to make me do that. I’m not wearing in a large store where I am only customer in there. I’m not wearing it in my vehicle. So I hope nobody tries to mandate some national mask wearing outside the home. It is way over the top. Trump handled the whole mask thing wrong. I understand what he was trying to do. We need to get the country open. We are already heading toward paying a big price. The less we are closed the better it will be. Won’t impact me as I already have made my money. I’m safe. But there will be many that will lose their jobs and will not be able to find work. There is a reckoning coming.
I fear you are right. I don’t know how New York City will recover. There hasn’t been a play performed since March. Everyone I know who works there is still working from home. The city that never sleeps is practically comatose.
One of the hardest hit are the hair and nail salon owners. Numerous businesses have gone under. These were people who invested in a business and ended up losing it to a virus that is serious for a very low % of the population.
This is really sad Tara, but it’s all about a political calculation by these liberal Mayors and Governors. Even though small and medium business owners are suffering, they make up a small percentage of the constituents that elect these same clowns over and over and over and over…..
People out of work, no problem, we’ll take care of them and make them totally dependent upon the Gov’t for aspect of their lives. These are the same cities that are flat out broke due to poor leadership and looking to get bailed out as part of these proposed COVID-19 stimulus packages. Most of us know better that these problems were created decades ago, not with COVID-19.
Same with Chicago, Philadelphia, LA, Detroit, Baltimore, etc, etc, etc
It was a sad time that so many people had to pass in nursing homes do to New York gov.
I think this is an extreme oversimplification.
Absolutely correct Debi. As a public health educator/epidemiologist even I find it difficult to work the numbers & analyze what’s happening around the US regarding COVID. We’ll be compiling data, crunching numbers & trying to figure it out for the next 20+ years. People are looking for a scapegoat, pointing fingers when they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Had Trump mandated closures & masks in March people would’ve been in an uproar. Americans don’t like to be told what to do, even if it’s for their own good. People are still resisting masks even when it’s been shown masks are an effective deterrent to infection.
I’m hopeful Moderna’s vaccine which was just reported Monday as being 94.5% effective will become available mid-Dec.for high risk people & our health care workers & the rest of the population by April.
Paul, please help me understand. What is going to happen with the reckoning? I am sincerely asking for more information.
This is a complicated subject and much is still not known about this virus. I would recommend that we give one another some slack. We are all humans and we all want the best for us. It doesn’t matter if the President is Trump, Biden, Obama, or whomever….any President would do his best and for anyone here to suggest otherwise is just a terrible thing to see. Remember Trump lost his brother and friends to the virus. As long as you make him out to be a cold evil demon you have no credibility with me. 70 plus million people voted for Trump. You need to respect that. The subject is complicated and we need to respect one another. Discuss it with kindness.
President Trump has repeatedly said the COVID crisis was a media-driven lie that would disappear the day after the election. I’m sorry, but he is not “doing his best” to fix this problem. As the nation is seeing its highest levels of both cases and hospitalizations since the pandemic started, he is golfing and contesting the results of a fair election… and hasn’t said a SINGLE WORD about the increasingly dire situation. Please don’t defend the indefensible.
I don’t believe Trump ever said the virus a media driven lie that would disappear the day after the election. If you can find the quote, please post it. I’d love to read it. (pls be careful and honest)
This was Trump two weeks ago (the caps are his): “ALL THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS COVID, COVID, COVID. ON NOVEMBER 4th, YOU WON’T BE HEARING SO MUCH ABOUT IT ANYMORE. WE ARE ROUNDING THE TURN!!!”
To be “careful and honest,” he was not saying the virus itself is a lie, just that the media was sensationalizing it in order to hurt his chances at reelection.
So your original comment above was a lie. Correct? You falsely interpret Trump, spread the untruths, and expect what? Recognition? Fame? You may want to revisit some basic laws of humanity.
So would you prefer Trump stay locked down in a bunker? What is your plan? Personally, I feel having the leader of the free world spreading fear on a daily basis is not really leading at all. What would Biden have done differently, been more empathetic? How does that help? Did Roosevelt say “oh my God, the Japanese killed another 10000 Americans in the Pacific” as part of his daily address? Or maybe Eisenhower should have called off D-Day because a bunch of 18-19 year olds were going to die on the beaches of Normandy. Trump’s actions were far more important than his words or demeanor, which is why we now have a vaccine getting ready to be distributed to millions in RECORD time. That had to be the top priority, along with treatments like Remdesivir from DAY 1. Make no mistake, either Obama or Biden would have kept us locked down and hoped the virus would magically disappear. We know that didn’t work, and caused more harm, but the addiction and depression-related deaths are not being talked about breathlessly by the media. Just look at Europe, except for Sweden, how are they doing now? And that is AFTER prolonged lockdowns and mask wearing. Sweden must be laughing their collective heads off at the rest of the World.
The leader of the free world should be doing his job. Not fighting to overturn a democratic election.
Sweden deaths per m 601 Germany 144 Canada 282. Not sure they will be laughing at the rest of the world. Looks a little better than us but not much.
Making semantic arguments to defend Donald Friggin’ Trump isn’t exhibiting “basic laws of humanity.” This man has never shown an ounce of compassion for the now 240k+ American lives lost to a disease, let alone advocated something as simple as wearing a mask, which if he hadn’t made it into a political statement could have saved many of those lives. We are in the most extreme period to date in terms of cases and hospitalizations and the president of the United States hasn’t said a single word about it, except to accuse a drug company with a promising vaccine of playing politics with the announcement. Instead, he is spending all of his time broadcasting debunked conspiracy theories, filing frivolous lawsuits, and attacking Fox News, all because his feelings are hurt after he badly lost an election. The only thing sadder than the behavior of this narcissistic grifter child is the behavior of those who apologize for him.
OK. You’re unhappy. Check one for the unhappy. Got it.
I’d bet one thing….if Trump had to do it all over, he’d play the concerned father figure, doling out mask-wearing advice and talking incessantly about those who died and what a shame it is. And in between that, he’d be encouraging all his supporters to mail-in vote. If he had it to do it all over……
MJ you should learn to read. Worldometer and Johns Hopkins, Sweden death rate per m better than UK, France, USA, and twenty other nations.
When: Friday, February 7, and Wednesday, February 19
The claim: The coronavirus would weaken “when we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”
When: Thursday, February 27
The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”
When: Multiple times
The claim: If the economic shutdown continues, deaths by suicide “definitely would be in far greater numbers than the numbers that we’re talking about” for COVID-19 deaths.
When: Multiple times
The claim: “Coronavirus numbers are looking MUCH better, going down almost everywhere,” and cases are “coming way down.”
When: Wednesday, June 17
The claim: The pandemic is “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”
When: Thursday, July 2
The claim: The pandemic is “getting under control.”
When: Saturday, July 4
The claim: “99%” of COVID-19 cases are “totally harmless.”
When: Thursday, August 27
The claim: The U.S. has “among the lowest case-fatality rates of any major country anywhere in the world.”
The truth: When Trump said this, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, and India all had lower case-fatality rates than the U.S., which sat in the middle of performance rankings among all nations and among the 20 countries hardest hit by the virus.
When: Multiple times
The claim: The media is overblowing fears about the virus ahead of Election Day.
The truth: Has journalism stopped covering the pandemic after Trump lost the election?
When: Multiple times
The claim: “Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country.”
HAHAHAHA
When: Multiple times
The claim: The Trump administration’s travel restrictions on China were a “ban” that closed up the “entire” United States and “kept China out.”
The truth: Nearly 40,000 people traveled from China to the United States from February 2, when Trump’s travel restrictions went into effect, to April 4th.
When: Thursday, March 26
The claim: This kind of pandemic “was something nobody thought could happen … Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened.”
Truth: In case you forgot, this dude was alerted to the presence of the virus in the very end of 2020 and did nothing, while the republicans who knew sold their stocks. The USA might have known earlier if Trump hadn’t dismantled and defunded the US infectious diseases team in China just earlier that year.
Suggest TR report Leon County and Florida stats on hospitalizations and deaths at the same time to get full perspectives.
The current research shows that masks work to reduce the spread and severity of Covid-19 (and likely other illnesses like the flu). The research is indicating that the volume of viral particles determine the severity of the disease. Masks work since they reduce the volume spread and reduce the distance that they can travel by absorbing the energy. Basically, a single bee sting is not a big deal to most people but a swarm of bees can pose a significant risk to most people. Fewer stings means better outcomes. Less virus means better outcomes. They don’t need to block 100% of the virus. Any reduction will result in better outcomes. Universal mask usage is key to controlling the outbreak and getting the economy back up.
I’m going to be as kind as I can be here … site your sources ! (spoiler alert — you won’t find any ).
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948-t1
there are a lot of caveats. it has to fit properly; you have to refrain from fiddling with it & pulling it down the way BiteMe & Fauci do; it has to be made from the right materials with the right balance between oxygen intake & CO2 out-flow & the 850 billion viral particles per square inch Wuhan.
https://amgreatness.com/2020/10/24/if-masks-dont-work-why-do-we-keep-wearing-them/
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf
Table page 4
“Reported use of cloth face covering or mask 14 days before illness onset (missing = 2)
Case-patients
Never 6 (3.9%)
Rarely 6 (3.9%)
Sometimes 11 (7.2%)
Often 22 (14.4%)
Always 108 (70.6%)…”
Agree Aaron. We need to be careful when issuing irreproachable claims that masks work because there are no scientifically sound studies proving they do and certainly none that are peer reviewed. There is good anecdotal evidence that they can help with very close contact situations like at a barber but almost none on use outside or on universal wearing.
However, open to seeing any updates to this situation if you have any sources. I just ask we stick to sound research and studies before posting low quality confirmation biased “studies”
You are a closed minded idiot that will only accept the truth one a sociopath, sore loser tells you it is ok to do so. Your sad existence that is based on a fanboy love for someone that doesn’t care about you or any of your fellow supporters really makes me sad for you, but don’t let that impact the many Americans that deserve to live and have a happy, full life if we just listen to the intelligent doctors and scientists.
and you had to go down the path of being obnoxious with ‘You are a closed minded idiot’. That’s the best you can do (smh)?
New CDC guidelines do give a list of citations on masks – but as the disclaimer states effectiveness has been demonstrated through observation and epidemiological studies.
The MSM media has politicized masks so much – I worry that we have lost the cornerstone of all infection control – hand washing. Frequent and correctly practiced hand washing is essential – especially because most people touch their masks frequently.
Don’t forget distancing. Every time I go to the store some moron employee comes and stands next to me restocking shelves. Why are you standing next to me? I have a mask on, I have to do my job. Well you’re going to have a hell of a time doing your job from a hospital bed. Distancing is proven, mask is not.
Kevin, you can find many peer-reviewed studies about the effectiveness of masks (various materials) in JAPA and The Lancet. There has been peer reviewed research on scenario-based research of masks by infectious diseases for decades, but the most recent ones (since the beginning of this pandemic mobilization) are also available. A good one recently came out of Japan. Perhaps just based on the chance that they might protect our fellow humans, we could wear one. But if you need hard evidence of how effect a mask is to justify wearing one – happy reading! 🙂
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-simple-science-behind-why-masks-work
https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=27691&publicId=395
https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
and one on viral load specifically
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.13.20193508v2
Perhaps I was not specific enough … “The research is indicating that the volume of viral particles determine the severity of the disease. ”
This is the line that you wrote which is unfounded. I think that you are confusing viral load with viral dose. Viral dose is the amount of the virus that you come in contact which can determine whether you get sick, while viral load is the amount of the virus in your body when you are sick. There are studies which show the higher your viral load the worse your symptoms (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.22.20199125v1.full.pdf) , but there are none that connect the individuals viral load to the viral dose which caused them to get sick in the first place. A virus like this is nothing like a bee sting, it replicates exponentially inside your body and how quickly and how many times it reproduces is a factor of a lot of variables, and none of them are known to be the viral dose that you initially met with (unless you can find a study that I am unaware of).
I am not going to get into the efficiency or effectiveness of masks because that is just beating a dead horse.
So are you saying it doesn’t reduce your chance of catching the virus if there are less viral particles in the air?
No that is not what I am saying and not the part of the original post that I think was wrong. The original claim is that the less viral particles in the air , the less “the severity of the disease.” if you do catch it.
My objection is that as far as I can find there is no correlation between how severely sick a person gets and how much of the virus they initially came into contact with. How much of the virus you come in contact with may determine whether or not you get infected. However, if you get infected I have found no evidence that there is a difference whether it was from standing in a room full of Covid patients coughing on you, or if it was from one person you interacted with briefly.
Ok I get your point. When you said show your sources I thought you were disputing that masks reduce the spread as well as the severity.
Until we have a vaccine in circulation for most of the population I think masks are the best we have for those who cannot be outside and social distance. People need to work and masks are the only way to make it a little safer at the moment.
Mike, maybe you should look in the mirror and do some of your own research versus name calling. Take a look at Sweden, doing better than all of Europe and not seeing any “surge” like the rest of Europe that has had mask mandates throughout. Same with Blue States in the US like Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan. The virus is going to do what it’s going to do, a piece of cloth is not going to stop it, and certainly not inside a residence where family members don’t even wear a mask – are you advocating that? Your best defense is being in good shape, and if you aren’t, better to have your groceries delivered and stay away from your family.
Japan and most of the Asian countries are doing better than Europe and the US because most of their population is not morbidly obese and diabetes is not prevalent like it is in the US, particularly with minorities who are 4 to 5 times more likely to die from COVID-19. Fact per the CDC.
The average age of death from COVID-19 in the US is 78, actually 79 in Florida per FDOH. The average life expectancy of an American is 78.4. Coincidence?
All this talk about masks is mind-numbing, there are only two ways to deal with this virus and any other pathogen that has come before. 1.) Vaccine, 2.) Natural Immunity.
Japan is also testing at a significantly lower frequency than the U.S (roughly 22,000 tests per 1M people in Japan, compared to 455,000 tests per 1M people in the U.S.). That could definitely explain the delta between total cases.
You need to test less when you have less community spread not more.. for most of the pandemic Japans positivity rate has been way belo the US hence the need to test a lot less.
There is a reason for this lack of testing in Japan. Their policy is to focus on testing people when they are actually sick and also their insurance plans don’t cover tests for people that want to get tested, “just because”.
“For this reason, the Health, Labor, and Welfare Ministry recommended that patients without any underlying conditions be kept at home, and that testing capacity be focused on people who had had close contact with COVID-19 patients as well as older persons with underlying conditions.”
Same explanation for why the NE States aren’t officially showing MILLIONS of cases since they couldn’t test everyone and everything that moved back in the Spring. Japan also doesn’t isolate and quarantine a bunch of perfectly healthy people which leads to many other mental and physical issues like drug abuse and suicide. This is why hospitalizations and deaths, particularly excess deaths, are a much better barometer.
Why do you think they have a much lower positivity?
If they only test sick people it should be higher than here but it is way lower. This means you can do less testing when Covid is under control. As we have seen in the North at the moment positivity here is through the roof and the virus is really out of control.
I fully agree that initially in the NE testing was not available hence the number is way low there. Another reason it ran out of control is that we had done 8000 tests by early March. S. Korea which had its 1st test on the same day as us had done over 100K tests by early March.
The Asian countries are also using Contact Tracing Apps to isolate new covid cases and stop the spread of the disease. In many countries, the app is mandated along with wrist bands to ensure you stay quarantined. South Korea has a novel covid avoidance app. The State of Virginia released a Contact Tracing app in July and I believe it has had very low acceptance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/12/covid-infections-in-sweden-surge-dashing-hopes-of-herd-immunity
May want to rethink the Sweden statement.
I live in Michigan, worked in the fitness industry and am considering a move to Florida where I can have a job and some freedom. I pray for the day where I don’t have to read someone virtue signalling online about masks. What have we been lowered to? Are we all going to live in fear until we die? We all die. We all get sick. My god people, wake up. Why would you deliberately give up your freedom in a state that is trying to help you?
I’m going to regret this but…what freedom has someone given up?
If you look outside the state of Florida there are a lot of states that have launched attacks against basic freedoms and many people seem to be willingly accepting it. I will go into just a few of the more ridiculous ones.(most all of these “rights” fall under right to peaceful assembly)
California — The right to hold Thanksgiving dinner https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/11/1/21541820/california-thanksgiving-rules-guidelines
New York — The right to have a wedding
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/officials-continue-to-break-up-weddings-large-gatherings-on-long-island/2653322/
Too many states — The right to go out to eat at a restaurant. https://patch.com/illinois/across-il/il-nears-statewide-ban-indoor-dining
These are just some examples of the government overreach. They work for us , they do not get to control us. We are all aware at this point of the dangers of Covid, but life must go on. We are fortunate to live in one of the states that re-opened the fastest , but lest we forget even Florida took away our most basic right of going to the beach to enjoy the Ocean (or Gulf for us west coasters).
Thank you for being an intelligent thinking human being.
Thank you, Brandi. I agree. For the vast majority of people, this is little more than a cold.
I was in a discussion with some friends about why the whole world has gone on board with this. It’s puzzling, for sure. A lot of the deaths are people who were dying anyway. Granted, it shortened some lives, especially grandmas and grandpas who could have had more years. But, to me, at a certain age I expect something to come along that could take me out. And like you said, should we live in fear every day of that something?
I am thankful every day I retired to Florida. I was born in NJ and lived in NY before retiring to FL. We can’t hide from this virus forever….it’s waiting. I heard NY may shut down again. There was one story of a batshit crazy undertaker who was throwing bodies in a UHaul and all you hear is “so many people were dying they had to put them in trucks.”
Are you referring to the refrigerated trucks they were using to hold the bodies? If there was a story about 1 person using a UHaul I missed it so I just wanted to clarify.
The freedom to not wear a mask? Do you feel the same way about seat belts?
I think seat belts are a good comparison. Do you really need a seat belt in 20-35 mph, stop and go traffic, with lots of traffic lights, school zones, ped crossings, suburban settings? I usually belt up, but if you’re a careful driver driving in a typical small town setting under 30 mph, I think I’m not in harm if I don’t buckle up. (I wear a seat belt 98%). Driving on a highway at 60 -70 mph and getting blown away by everything from Tuners, truckers, bikes going 80+ mph, I always wear a seat belt. Same with masks. Wear them where it makes sense. Walking on a sidewalk past diners eating outside, I don’t really need to worry. Same with people on sidewalks. I don’t care if you’re not wearing/not wearing. So far, so good.
If you are “only” going 25 and are in a head-on your air bag will have your head resting in your lap. Air bags are the best reason to wear a seat belt.
The level of ignorance is appalling. Wearing a mask helps save lives.
My take on Brandi’s post was that she was concerned with loss of jobs and the freedom to work. Her comment on masks was just on the never-ending conversation about them, as evidenced here. The name-calling and insults and everything being about masks is exactly what she said she was hoping would end. I could be wrong, but I don’t think she meant not wearing them.
Brandi,
PLEASE! Educate yourself. Look at Japan’s numbers compared to the USA. Using data from the CDC (an American organization), in the US, you’re 50 times more likely to catch Covid, and if you catch it you’re twice as likely to die. What’s the difference? Japan has NO mask shaming Republicans.. They’ve been wearing masks every flu season since the 90’s. LOOK AT THE DATA NOT THE TELEVISION. DO YOUR RESEARCH. THEN APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE YOU’VE TRIED TO SHAME.. ignorant ass.. please DONT move to Florida, weve already got WAY too many self righteous Yankees..
Well, with all that name-calling and insults, I question who is doing the shaming. Brandi said nothing about masks.
Oops, she did mention masks. But still, your comments were uncalled for.
Mike,
You are comparing completely different populations, climates, and ethnicities.
Obesity Rate in US is 42.4% (this is insane)
Obesity Rate in Japan is 4.3%
Its been shown that High Blood Pressure, diabetes, and metabolic dysfunction in general are significant co-morbidities of Covid 19.
I posit the significant difference in Covid spread & outcomes between Japan and other East Asian nations vs the US has more to do with the obesity rate than mask wearing. Also, prior to Covid, although Japanese people would wear masks in public, it was limited to those who were already sick. Not the general population. Having a virus, and being sick are two different things. Humans are exposed to countless bacteria and viruses on the daily basis. We are not always sick.
The research on the efficacy of mask wearing is not out. I agree that in most cases wearing a mask doesn’t hurt. Its just not the full proof solution people are making it out to be. Wearing masks is not going to prevent you or anyone else from being exposed to or contracting the disease. Especially since the general population are not capable of appropriately wearing masks consistently.
Ex: You adjusted your mask with your hand so that it covers your nose because it slipped down, boom you could have spread Covid from you hand to your mask.
And lastly, as if on cue, you proved Brandi’s point about just mentioning masks online will bring out the virtue signalers.
Hope you stay safe and educate yourself on all the aspects of the pandemic. Single factor analysis is very easy to do, but is generally useless for policy and personal decision making.
There is still no solid scientific proof that masks do anything other that encourage people to forgo measures that have been proven, such as not standing shoulder to shoulder next to me and washing your hands thoroughly. By scientific proof I mean large long-term double-blinded studies. Everything else is inference and extrapolation. Japan has lower numbers because of masks? Correlation does not imply causation. Who’s the a$$?
You tell him I am 1 of those grandmas that would like to spend a few more years with my family so I will wear my mask and ask anyone near me to do the same
Brandi. You must be young and healthy. I’m glad you are not in an at risk category. I am going to be 70 next April. I have great friends and a lot more living to do. I am doing 6 zoom exercise classes every week to stay strong. I had a trip to Alaska planned with my sister who is 4 1/2 years older. My sister has a mild case of emphysema. I am hoping you will choose to wear a mask to protect us as we would probably fare worse than you. You have the freedom to choose to care for your fellow human beings who are at a higher risk.
Important message for you:
https://www.fox9.com/video/862966
Where are the local stats? Are they in an upward trend in hospitalizations as Florida overall?
Johns Hopkins finally updated their numbers for Florida to more accurately reflect positivity. They now show the Florida 5% positivity rate correctly.
FL positivity (10/31, 1:16 PM) = 7.94%
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/us/florida
From that link:
*****
“The count for this metric is incremented up by one for each day on which an individual person is tested, no matter how many specimens are collected from that person on that day. If an individual person is tested twice a day on three different days, this count will increment up by three.”
*****
I really don’t understand why they count anyone more than once. People who get COVID need a negative test before they can go back to work, so of course they are getting tested more than once. Some people get tested several times before finally getting the negative.
Another example of “torture numbers long enough and they’ll admit to anything.”
That is an incorrect link and stat, 7.94% is from beginning of pandemic. Current 7 day positivity rate is 5.7%.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/florida
One can view the stats for themselves to see how poorly New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Massachusetts performed.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
Rankings of example US states (some have statewide mask mandates)
here:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html
a few examples
Data points were last updated Oct. 31. Data for positivity rates and tests are seven-day moving averages. New cases are daily counts as reported by state and the District of Columbia. The information cited is from the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center. States are arranged in descending order of test positivity rates.
Vermont: 0.5%
New York: 1.5%
California: 3.1%
West Virginia: 4.4%
South Dakota: 47%
Alabama: 20.9%
Take whatever NY, NJ, and Conn are reporting with a grain of salt. We all know millions of people actually had the virus in the Spring, just couldn’t be tested at that time unless they were sick enough to go to the hospital – which well over 95% of people that test positive never request hospitalization. The antibody studies conducted in New Rochelle and Brooklyn show this. This means there are very few people left to catch it at this point. If they officially reported on antibodies, that would be a completely different story.
Wisconsin has had a mask mandate since the beginning and now has a positivity rate between 15 and 20% per Johns Hopkins – 7-day moving average of 13.7%. Maybe they should wear two masks in case the first one falls off.
Finally Johns Hopkins got onboard with Florida’s reporting and is now showing a 7-day moving average of 5.2% for Florida. This is with pretty much everything fully opened now, unlike California. I’ll take Florida’s policies hands-down over Cali. We don’t have people leaving the State in droves due to Emperor Newsom.
Death rates per 100,000:
Worst:
New Jersey – 184
New York – 172
Massachusetts – 144
Connecticut – 129
Best:
Vermont – 9
Maine – 11
Alaska – 11
Wyoming – 15
Noted:
South Dakota – 46
Alabama – 59
Hard to claim New York did well when the only stat that matters contradicts that claim so strongly.
One can view the stats for themselves to see how poorly New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Massachusetts performed.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
Wednesday evening, CDCP reported that Florida had an accumulative 938,830 “cases”, 4.408% of population, 18,157 fatalities, 0.085% of population, fatalities/infected rate 1.934%…(unless I made a typo). Panic, everyone!!!
One reporter noted that a high percentage of fatalities have been among people expected to die within 6 months if SARS-cov-2 never existed. And then there was the Croatian who fell off the ladder, hit his head, bleeding between brain & membrane, arteriosclerosis… an obvious case of Wuhan the MEs say.
Can we get a graph that shows positivity rate and Rate of deaths? I want to compare on the same graph a trend line showing the positive cases with negative outcomes. In other words, I’m hoping it will show that when cases are trending up, hospitalizations and deaths are holding flat or trending down. The bar charts show it but they are isolated so I would like to see the charts combined
Yes that would be super helpful
Easy to do if the data is available.
For Mindy,
This page has a really good graph showing all epidemiological curves:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html
To those who continue to question masks, here is a definitive study, a “natural experiment,” recently summary of Kansas citizens in counties with vs without mask mandates. I suggest that those of you who are not scientists (and do not know what the simple meaning of p-value is, for instance) please refrain from stating unsubstantiated statements such as many in this thread. Examples: The virus will be no longer a problem on Nov 4. That is simply untrue. In order for someone to really believe that, one would have to believe all counties in the entire U.S. would be “in on the conspiracy,” not to mention the co-conspirators in all of Europe. Why do you think the Canadian case per capita is >3X lower than ours (5.3/100K CAN vs US 15.5/100K)? Are Canadians NOT in on the “liberal” conspiracy? Here is an excellent summary of the data from multiple countries, where Canada clearly has done so much better than U.S. as a whole. Obviously their cold weather is like our Wisconsin weather. Wisconsin is now under major crisis, such that they had to open a field hospital.
What would you say to the 34-yo lady who has double pneumonia and is happy to have received care in that field hospital?
https://www.nbc15.com/2020/10/26/coronavirus-patient-at-wisconsin-field-hospital-say-care-is-high-quality/
Wisconsin opened an alternative care facility for COVID-19 patients Oct. 14 as COVID-19 hospitalizations tripled statewide over the last month:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/wisconsin-hospitals-on-the-brink-as-field-hospital-opens-6-notes.html
Here is an article in FORBES, a right-leaning publication, showing how well Canada does:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/10/15/how-excess-mortality-in-2020-compares-infographic/#4646651867a2
Proof that I am not pushing only “left wing” publications for this argument:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/forbes/
Do you notice an uptick in the number of sirens going through your neighborhoods? Those are people struggling for breath being carted off to the hospital, where they will lay alone in their hospital beds. And no, hospitals and doctors offices are NOT inflating covid numbers simply to get more money. Here is a full explanation for why this is a flat out lie (and really hard to believe that people would fall for this, again thinking that there is a massive conspiracy underfoot to make the current administration “look bad.”
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/27/donald-trump/trump-wrong-claim-us-padding-covid-19-stats/
Regarding “SARS-cov-2 was weaponized. Li Meng Yan, M.D. who allegedly worked there, said in September interviews that it was” This has been disproven WITHOUT a doubt. This “Dr. Yan” did not publish a real scientific journal article. Here are several studies (again published by real scientists who use their real names, that show the lineage of the virus:
(Ironically enough, we are so good at genomics sequencing these days, with subsequent bioinformatics analyses, that we can even trace the different strains and how they got spread around in this country. The vast majority of those that killed the New Yorkers in the early days actually were infected by viruses coming in from Europe:
https://asm.org/COVID/COVID-19-Research-Registry/Basic-Virology#evolutions
(scroll to the bottom of the page for a list of real scientific publications, under “Evolution & Phylogenetics”)
NY strains study (one of several):
Introductions and early spread of SARS-CoV-2 in the New York City area
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6501/297
Regarding this one: “All of this mask wearing is going to cause people to get deathly ill from a cold because you’re not building your immunity.” You need to read a basic immunology text book, my friend. Immunity is very specific. Although some common colds are caused by coronaviruses, this particular virus is significantly different so that who do contract COVID will have no immunity against colds or other similar viruses. I can point to several places. Here is a basic immuno lesson:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-human-body-systems/hs-the-immune-system/a/hs-the-immune-system-review
Again, this person is believing Dr. Scott Atlas and his push for herd immunity which has been propogated throughout this state. Please do not state “examples” of (n=1) people who normally wear masks and do not normally wear masks, and subsequent anecdotal “evidence.” Again n=1. True, the regular masks (not N95) do not protect you from contracting it. The masks are meant for all to wear, to prevent you from spreading it. Most of us do not have the luxury of wearing N95 masks out in public. (expensive and hard to find). If I am wearing a mask in Publix, but a maskless person comes near me and expels droplets in my area, of course I could get it. That is why it is so frustrating that people refuse to wear masks.
What about this one: “There is no hiding from it, people are going to get it, just need to protect the vulnerable.” That is PROMOTING HERD IMMUNITY. (thanks to Dr. Scott Atlas, America’s favorite MRI Radiologist, who has been “selected” by the WH since he is the only person who agrees with opening everything up, with no mask wearing and no physical distancing. All well and good, except the “vulnerable” cannot be completely isolated from the young and the reckless who are getting the disease. Ever try to go to the grocery store and avoid coming near the maskless? Impossible. The young and the reckless are keeping us trapped in our houses.
From the Mayo Clinic: “there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19. First, it isn’t yet clear if infection with the COVID-19 virus makes a person immune to future infection.
Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.”
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808
(Simple, just calculate it — to get to 70% of the population, you would have to allow 0.6*325,000,000 = 195,000,000 people to get it. Of those, how many will die? Let’s be generous and err on the low side of death rates shown on this page:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
If you push for this natural herd immunity “strategy,” then 195,000,000 people in US contract it, and again if you are using the *low end* of the confirmed death rates:
0.005*195,000,000 = 975,000 will die.
If you use the median (again see chart in page jhu.edu/data):
0.02**195,000,000 = 3,900,000 will die.
(And please, don’t use that n=1 instance where someone died on a motorcycle but they were counted as covid death. Sometimes overwhelmed hospitals and Dr. offices make mistakes, when they are holding the hands of those dying alone, or holding up phones for last face time with family members….sorry cannot help being snarky.)
Here’s more info to prove that you would have to have 60-70% get it to achieve natural herd immunity:
https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwise/what-is-covid-19-coronavirus-herd-immunity-when-will-we-achieve-herd-immunity.h00-159383523.html
And don’t forget about long-term damage to survivor’s hearts, eyes, etc. since don’t forget this is a vascular disease that causes irreparable damage that will stay with them for the rest of their lives:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7467860/
And about this: “The risk of contagion in such places is so low as to make wearing a mask not necessary. And remember, exposure does not mean contagion. Per the CDC, contagion requires extended exposure to a symptomatic person in close proximity.” *Incorrect.* Even brief encounters will result in contracting the virus. The CDC updated its guidelines based on several studies, including this one:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6943e1.htm
And here (again from a scientific publication, but this one is written for the lay person):
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
Re: “Over 2.8M Americans die every year” — YES but we can PREVENT the COVID deaths. Every rational-thinking, logical person who has enough sense to read more than Facebook “news” knows that the actual COVID deaths are WAY underestimated. COVID deaths (actual documented ones) are the third leading cause of death. We are losing K-12 bus drivers, custodians, and cafeteria workers (not to count the teachers) from being in contact with asymptomatic maskless students on buses.
Last, “If you are old or health compromised stay home. Everyone personally knows their health situation. We live in America- we have rights and freedoms….” We do not have freedoms to infect others. That would be akin to “we have our freedom to drive drunk. If you are afraid of being in a car accident with a drunk driver, then stay off the roads.” Old and compromised are not living in bubbles. We unfortunately come into contact with those maskless “free folks” who are infected but are presymptomatic, or those very young who are bearing high viral loads and still perhaps remain asymptomatic. Noone lives in a bubble. All people need to wear masks to prevent themselves from infecting others.
This is the Kansas study: https://ipsr.ku.edu/covid19/images/MaskMandateUpdate.pdf
Thank you Doctor. Very long winded response quoting some generic media articles. Without requiring a list of articles, you should take a present look at an entire country called Sweden. I would suggest reading the current Economist article on it. . . . Their story rebukes every statement you made.
“Do you notice an uptick in the number of sirens going through your neighborhoods? Those are people struggling for breath being carted off to the hospital, where they will lay alone in their hospital beds.”
THAT. Is reckless fear mongering, and it’s a shame because it undermines everything else you said.
Well, is it true, or not, that folks who are hospitalized are alone, with only nurses and other hospital personnel there to comfort them? I personally have been separated from my 84-yo father with cancer, and the only time I see him is through phone “face time” (actually the android version, “video call”) when the hospice nurse has time to do a video call. In our neighborhood (we purchased this house last year, March), we never heard sirens. Our neighborhood is between the hospital and a major hotspot (a small town that has had mask burning ceremonies and where people successfully forced the town council to drop a mask mandate). Whereas between March 2019 and March 2020, we would hear a siren on average 1X per month, we now hear them on a regular basis, at least 1X per every 2 days, usually 1-2X per day. Just stating the facts. And yes, it is scary, especially since those in power either to (a) hide the data, or (b) distort the data to morph the statistics to fit their political agendas.
*”THAT. Is reckless fear mongering, and it’s a shame because it undermines everything else you said.”*
… Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Nothing exposes a crackpot better than shameless demagoguery.
Yeah, more sirens. That’s very scientific.
A long post that is very unconvincing. France, Belgium, Netherlands, UK are reporting more cases than the entire U.S. The U.S. is now reporting less than half the cases per population as the E.U. The U.S. kept the curve manageably flat (which is what was prescribed from the beginning) and did so while having less than half the economic drop as E.U. Now much of Europe is back in lockdown.
People can blame Trump but America is doing much better than other large nation or nation blocs.
Don’t even look at South America where there are more deaths per capita and dramatically underreported numbers due to lack of testing resources and records. Canada is a very small population country that emerged from lockdown in the their mild summer; we will see their situation in January (Quebec province is back in lockdown, so they are not a success story even now). Whereas Americas outbreak was pronounced in the summer in the Sun Belt in indoor A/C weather.
The answers always lie somewhere in the middle. While there is much to discuss in your article, I’ll just point out the herd immunity conversation. As a voracious reader of medical literature for over 2 decades, I’m very familiar with most aspects of delving into statistics as it relates to research. With herd immunity, those against seem to be dancing around the research on residual T-cell immunity, which may be present in up to 50% of the population. How else would you explain a sub-20% spread in households, where exposure almost absolutely had to occur? Have some residual T-cell immunity from exposure to other coronaviruses when the individual’s immune system tagged the antigen as a conserved segment of proteins would go a long way towards explaining this, and is supported by the research that has asked that question.
TR – Can we get a set of graphs that covers from the start of this pandemic – so we get the context of these bar graphs? It’s hard to find graphs that go out beyond 3 months.
Here:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/
Yesterday I went and early voted. And, no exaggeration, this happened:
A couple came in behind me without masks. A woman on line, with a walker, yelled out, “Go out and put on a fucking mask.”
And the guy said, “No, no, I’m not.”
Then the woman said to another guy, “And you put your mask up over your nose. That’s where all the germs are. I’m a nurse, I know. I see all the dead bodies.”
So the guy said, “I’m not wearing it right? Then I’ll take it off.” And he took it off.
Then the woman said, “Then stay away from me, you germy slobs.”
Sigh.
The case watching is maddening. There were only 2100 cases the day before, noone talks about that. The US has been doing > 1M tests per day for the past week or so, a couple times it was 1.2M. The positivity rate is in the same range as it’s been for months, 7-day moving average is 5.7%. Once again, more fear mongering, not an actual surge other than a few localized areas in Wisconsin and Illinois. Sooner or later people are going to understand how math works. For sure the virus is here, and has spread far and wide. There is no hiding from it, people are going to get it, just need to protect the vulnerable. Masks are not effective, but wear one if it makes you feel better. Lockdowns do more harm than good. It would be nice if Democrats would stop pushing back on the vaccine, because we know there are only two ways to mitigate the virus at this point. 1.) natural immunity, 2.) immunity by vaccine
I have to tell that I laughed a bit when you said that sooner or later people are going to understand how math works…….are ya sure about that? :} But I’m totally with you on the lack of an actual surge. Before this year whenever the media was “catatrophising” I just assumed that most people really didn’t believe it and people just moved on. This year I realized I was wrong about that. For example, I live in Florida so whenever they would go on about a hurricane that was supposed to hit I figured most people realized the real risks and if they are in an evacuation area they most likely left the area. Now I realize I’m wrong about that and people take them literally and are being scared to death. I’d love the media to find the middle and report on things factually.
I would disagree that masks do not work. There is mounting evidence that while the virus is still spreading people are not getting as sick…which amounts to a vaccine like effect for whatever period of time the disease will allow immunity. Before now there was no way to ethically test if masks work for this type of virus…now we are getting real world evidence because we have no choice.
Debi, I would be willing to bend a bit on the mask thing if we all could agree that most of the cases are coming from family members under the same roof and people hanging out in a bar for hours. We know people are not wearing masks in their own home, and not when they are seated at the bar, so wearing a mask at Publix or Home Depot when you might be in close contact with someone for maybe a minute or two is not how this thing spreads – on the CDC website, not my opinion. I do agree that people are not getting as sick now, but that is a function of two things, 1.) the viral load which comes back to how long you were in close contact with someone that has it. Obviously being under the same roof, or even in the same bed, is going to expose you to a much higher viral load. 2.) we’ve learned a lot in 7 months, and there are better treatments and strategies as my wife (RN) has seen first hand.
Do we still say we are not seeing a surge?
We know that the most likely spread of virus is through droplets in the air. Aerosols spread it as well but to a slightly lesser extent. For all people who say masks are ineffective or don’t work please try this at home. Take a sip of water and then hold a sheet of paper 6 inches from your face and cough with the water still in you mouth. Then put on your mask and do the same again. Compare how much water hits the paper.
I understand wearing masks is not great but it is much better than being locked down.
It’s not so much whether masks are effective, but rather whether they make a significant difference in low risk areas such as shopping in a store. The risk of contagion in such places is so low as to make wearing a mask not necessary. And remember, exposure does not mean contagion. Per the CDC, contagion requires extended exposure to a symptomatic person in close proximity. 🙂
A better analogy is cigarette smoke. The particles are considerably larger than viruses so masking should be more effective for cigarette smoke. Consider an enclosed area with smokers puffing away: do you think that having them wear a mask, or you, the victim, having a mask, will make any difference? Do you think that you will not smell the smoke? Surgical or cloth masks will not protect you. Maybe they make people feel better??
Well said. We all need to take a slow deep breath and lower the anxiety level that the MSM and Democrats keep trying to pump up.
Why do so many people who claim to not care about the virus or say it isn’t that bad come on here and comment. Seems odd, “if you don’t car.”
Because people apparently want to burn the village to save it, and that effects everyone…
The same thing happened to us when we early voted. The young guy behind us didn’t have on a mask. It was almost an hour wait, mostly outside. He was the only one I observed with no mask. I got him to back away from us pretty quickly though. I coughed loudly (in my mask) several times and he kept his distance. Lol
10/22/2020 – So we have 5,489 new cases today. However, if you look into the data you will see that Florida conducted 97,984 tests yesterday. We have been averaging about 400,000 tests a week statewide. So I am supposed to believe that suddenly 97 thousand plus people decided to get tested yesterday? Seems fishy to me. Probably another data dump.
To JFK. On the same page where the statistics are reported in between the statistical charts if you will look and read them they say things such as when there is an extraordinary number such as 97,000 that means that the day before the test weren’t reported so that day includes two days worth of tests so if you would read the rest of it instead of just peeking at the chart and coming to erroneous conclusions you would understand that it’s basically correct they say 44,000 one day and skip a day and then 97,000 the next day then that means it was about 44,000 those two days. So just read everything that’s very important in a statistical analysis.
Test reporting will vary for a few reasons. 1) test laboratories reporting may be delayed so the date of reporting is not necessarily the day they were tested. 2) testing for people without symptoms is voluntary; you will see that testing is always down on weekends; 3) when tests results are submitted, they must be validated and that could cause a delay; 4) as in any reporting, looking at a single day will be misleading, which is why they report trends and and 7 day rolling averages. Data collection, validation and reporting at the volume that covid requires is a challenging exercise.
Dear Journal, the hospitalization chart is missing, and a duplicate of the fatality rate is in its place. Thank you for this documentary work though, it is very precious.
Corrected.
Did anyone notice that the deaths and hospitalization charts were identical?
Corrected.
I don’t whether SARS-cov-2 was weaponized. Li Meng Yan, M.D. who allegedly worked there, said in September interviews that it was, with at least 3 genetic modifications, mainly in the “spikes” to make it a more effective cell attacker. Might be blowing smoke or not.
Many people have been doing searches, reading through journal & pop articles. We’ve studied photos of people sneezing with & without masks. We’ve read of durations of infectiousness on various surfaces in normal light, under UVA, UVB, & UVC. We’ve read that peroxide (3%+) & ethanol (50%-70%) & isopropanol (70%) & chlorine are effective disinfectants for it but benzalkonium chloride not so much…that sometimes a higher percentage is less effective because it evaporates too quickly. We’ve seen the graphs, much like those here at TR, of new cases per day or week, comparing the shapes for Sweden, Denmark…
We’ve been tracking the stats. We were told (I heard it on radio) that effective herd immunity would only be reached after 60% or more of the population had been infected or vaccinated. Months back, a survey test sweep reported about 21%+ of NYC residents were probably infected. After a lot of hysteria, CDCP is now saying only 7% of those tested are positive, only 2.46% of the USA population has been infected, 0.066% of USA population has death attributed (correctly or not) to ncov. Worldwide 0.524% infected, 0.015% death attributed to betacoronavirus. But the graphs seem to suggest some degree of herd immunity already. I know of no hospitals overwhelmed. Masks mostly work, eye-glasses mostly work, washing hands mostly works…nothing’s perfect.
(I am not a doctor, not an epidemiologist. My mother & grandmother were nurses — surgery, geriatric… Several of my old school friends are docs, nurses or retired from same. I have done some microbiology lab work in middle school & uni, and read some biochem, microbiology, & a terrifying pathophysiology text reminiscent of F. Paul Wilson, Michael Crichton & … Mira Grant fiction.)
I think the media has been drumming up hysteria all along from ignorance or political motives. But, as with arms, we need to respect the Wuhan & take reasonable precautions. Individuals differ over what’s reasonable. That’s part of what makes USA freedom great.
We shouldn’t be surprised that those who don’t fear getting covid would get tired of wearing masks for the 37% at high risk of getting covid badly. After all, we all care #1 about taking care of ourselves primarily. Nothing wrong with that, because it’s about self-survival. But please, don’t get within 20 feet of those wearing masks, since they only stop the larger droplets, and a sneeze or cough can go 19 feet unaided by blowing ac or heat blowers.
Amen to Susan’s comments!
It is nature-have you heard of survival of the fittest? If you are old or health compromised stay home. Everyone personally knows their health situation. We live in America- we have rights and freedoms or at least we use to. That’s why I thank God everyday I was born here and call this great country home. I am older and don’t go out except when absolutely necessary. I wear a mask and wish others would too but if they don’t I avoid them-it is their right. This won’t last forever- be smart, be patient and quit blaming others. Take responsibility for your own safety. This isn’t the first pandemic and sadly face it, it won’t be the last.I would be more afraid of losing my freedoms than the pandemic. Studies show people wearing masks get COVID as well.
Great points Susan, it’s amazing how only one cause of death seems to matter right now in the US, most of the other Countries have stopped reporting with the level of detail we do. They certainly aren’t going out of their way to code a death “COVID-related” when it’s borderline at best – most of the time they don’t do a PCR test beforehand. The average age of a COVID-related death, if you even believe the numbers, is 78, actually 79 in Florida per the FDOH. The average life expectancy of an American is 78.4.
There is always going to be that one off story about a perfectly healthy 30 year old dying from COVID-related causes. Over 2.8M Americans die every year, a lot of them were perfectly healthy, but they died in a car accident, suicide, brain aneurism, rare mosquito-borne illness, snake bite, etc. I remember hearing about this perfectly healthy 16-year old dying in Florida from COVID. Then you find out he weighed 300 pounds and had a blood-glucose level of 1000. I checked with my wife who is a RN and she agreed that kid was not perfectly healthy, not by a long shot. Problem is, parents probably never went to a Doctor so in their minds their kid was perfectly healthy, so keep feeding him fast food.
Time for Americans to wake up and take better care of their health and not penalize those who have been taking care of themselves all along. We’re making it worse and creating more far-reaching mental health issues, not just for the elderly, but our kids as well. My daughter is being treated like a leper in her high school so I’m THAT close to keeping her home because it’s creating more problems sending her in with all these protocols designed to keep the selfish Teacher’s Union safe.
Applaud your common sense Susan!
susan,
while one appreciates your upbeat and accepting attitude, your acceptance of survival of the fittest could easily been seen as accepting eugenics and accepting others “freedumb” to go maskless as inviting their abuse of the social contract and validating their potential to harm you.
having said that, for effect and reflection, dont believe those were your intended meanings.
society and the social contract are often in direct conflict with the “natural” concept of survival of the fittest. in truth our society is all about the survival of the “un-fittest”. we dont leave babies with deformities or down-syndrome out the cold, we dont ask the old to go off and die (ok arguably some of us do), once their no longer producing. Do you think special needs programs or behavioral therapy or any kind of medicine for that matter is “survival of the fittest?”
its not freedom to go maskless during a pandemic, particularly when a high percentage of people infected are aysmptomatic or presymptomatic. think of them as THOUSANDS of typhoid marys (though in fairness to mary its not been established clearly that she was as depicted)
given that many “carriers” have lasting lung and heart damage, though admittedly not established as long term or permanent, their long term health impacts are still unknown. partly because long term studies of any mild respiratory illness have not really been studied.
back to the social contract, it is VRY reasonable to expect others to reciprocate your masking particularly when its the law. And its well within the governments purview to require the citizenry to adhere to legal mandates based on best practices for preventing/reducing the spread of deadly pathogens.
while its great and preferable when people voluntarily adhere to recommendations to protect themselves and their fellow citizens. when they don’t and disease spreads beyond control harsh legal enforcement is not only reasonable but demanded. sadly it will likely come to that, mostly because ignorance and misinformation.
freedom is not free, part of the cost is adhering to law. freedom as some see it, in opposition to the laws that dont suit them and in line with disdain for the social contract, is anarchy. in fairness, since the most recent “law and order” government seems to feel anarchy and chaos are its guide, its not really surprising that a good portion of the nation is running around doing their best “cartman impression”…”i do what i want”
basically, its not reasonable for wanna be sovereign citizens to act in abeyance of reality putting the health and safety of others at risk. so no, you really shouldn’t just accept thats its ok or normal for people to act with disregard for the safety and health of yourself and others, because even if you avoid them its just a couple links in the epidemiological chain back to you or someone you care about .
applauding your live and let live vibe, but also saying, while we can and sometimes should make allowances for others eccentricities, just not when it impacts the health and safety of the citizenry as a whole as it does in this case.
It is inarguable to say wearing masks/protective screens is the right thing to do. It’s safe, it’s considerate, it’s comforting, the list of good things goes on and on. There is no argument against it.
But that still won’t make everyone do it, and the current pushback on those who don’t is not helping anything. “Non-maskers” will only dig in deeper when they’re being called selfish and harmful to the wiser, better “maskers”.
We all know that ridiculing and demeaning is not the way to get good results from people, yet it’s being done anyway. Then communication breaks down, and people are just talking through each other. I think that’s where we are in this country when it comes to the mask debate.
To your “current government” chaos and anarchy point, surely you’re talking about the Democrats who are applauding the anarchists who are creating chaos in their cities?
There is no law saying you have to wear masks. Businesses and some states claim to mandate masks but you can’t just make something a law because you want to, it’s unconstitutional. Masks are not full proof. I’ve known a few people personally who have had COVID. 1 couple did not wear a mask. He had some achiness and fatigue. She was asymptomatic. Another couple wore their mask anywhere they went. They went very few places and if they did they sanitized their hands before and after and of course hand washing. They both got it. She was sick with vomiting, lost sense of taste and smell, fatigue. He was asymptomatic. My son works for a gym. Back in May his girlfriend felt sick at work. Before she left to go home they hugged, touching faces with no masks. She was sick with fever and fatigue for about 3 days and then worked out and caused her to throw up but she was fine after about a week. My son was asymptomatic and he was living with us. None of us either got it or we were asymptomatic.
We are all either going to get it or throw it off. Yes people will die but guess what none of us are getting out of here alive. This country needs to get healthier but it’s a choice. All of this mask wearing is going to cause people to get deathly ill from a cold because you’re not building your immunity.
Yes it’s scary because no one knows if they will have major symptoms or none. We should never have shut down the economy. The cure cannot be worse than the virus and it has been. They have children, who are the very least susceptible wearing masks. That’s crazy. People are working in these things for 8 to 10 hours. It’s all about fear. They can’t even count numbers correctly. Die in a car accident but you test positive, it’s a COVID death. The media lies about everything.
I trust in God. I pray for protection but if I get it, I know He is with me through it. If He takes me home that’s a win. You realize they will never want you to stop wearing masks. They have you where they want you in fear and following like sheep. It will be wear your mask, there might be one person out there that has COVID and it could spread into an epidemic again. So as they put it this will be the new normal.
not as many people wearing masks get it as those who don’t. And they don’t spread it as much as the non-maskers, since the masks help contain and block the larger droplets.
AND local communities and states have every right to mandate mask wearing. It is NOT unconstitutional. They can write a law and you can be fined for transgressing. The Supreme Court will back them up. If you don’t believe me try walking around naked and see how long before you get arrested.
I personally know 3 younger coworkers that contracted Covid at work. 1 in his 30s passed away 1 in his 30s was sick for over 2 weeks and 1 in his 50s sick for over 3 weeks and needed hospitalization. Even those that recovered still have lingering effects after months of being negative.
My experience. I personally knew two people, ages 19 and 46, who died. I have had two staff members who tested positive, but like a lot of others the symptoms were mild. They are young, mid 20’s. My brother in-law, a firefighter, just tested positive a few days ago, and my sister in-law tested positive two days ago. So far, so good.
You should buy a lottery ticket. The odds of knowing personally persons ages 19 and 49 who were fatalities are approximately 1:17,563,421
How did you calculate those odds?
My experience. I personally knew two people, ages 19 and 46, who died. I have had two staff members who tested positive, but like a lot of others the symptoms were mild. They are young, mid 20’s. My brother in-law, a firefighter, just tested positive a few days ago, and my sister in-law tested positive two days ago. So far, so good.
After 7 months, I’m bringing my staff back to the office two days a week beginning Monday. Because this virus is so unpredictable, they will be required to wear masks, distance and follow other procedures. No exceptions. I never want to feel that a member of my staff, or the people they are in contact with outside of work, get sick or worse because I didn’t take precautions and require what I could.
I am 46 and tested positive for Covid in August. I had minor flu like symptoms and a light cough. My youngest child had no symptoms and oldest lost taste for a few days but no other symptoms (both teens). My wife (also my age) had a cough for a week. We all tested positive.
This was our experience.
And yours is the majority experience, a point often forgotten
Let’s give our personal experiences with Covid. Meaning, people we really know, not my boss’s mother, or my best friend’s brother’s friend type of stuff. People we have spent time with a few times a year for at least a few years.
My experience is I know 4 people who had Covid. Ages 63 to 89. Each one ended up having zero effect on them after 2 weeks of diagnosis. So, what do 4 zeros add up to? One big, fat zero.
They were lucky. I do believe the virus has changed though. I supposedly had covid earlier in the year and was extremely ill. It started with a high fever, cough, nausea and diarrhea. I went to the ER and said I tested negative for seasonal flu. The next week I went back with being short of breath. My oxygen levels were in the mid 80’s, I had pneumonia and a massive pulmonary embolism. I was airlifted to a larger hospital for a special clot busting technique. I was in the hospital for five days. Covid wasn’t being tested for at that time. I left the hospital with an enlarged heart and breathing issues. My cardiologist said I most likely had covid because of my symptoms and being negative for flu. At age 63 I feel blessed that I had great health care and got through it. Prior to getting sick I was at a theme park for several days where I probably was exposed. So to issue a blanket statement that no one gets it or gets through it easily is a huge disservice. I still have issues with stamina months later. I’m not saying we should hide in the basement but we shouldn’t ridicule those who take this serious and want to protect themselves and others. Stay well everyone.
I am not issuing a blanket statement. I issued my experience and I was quite clear in asking honestly for others’ experiences in an effort to understand the fear.
I appreciate your sharing, as that is exactly what I’m looking for. I want to understand why this virus continues to be so in the forefront, while I have not personally seen why.
I do have a relative who was hospitalized in early February with breathing issues and low oxygen levels and tested negative for everything, was given steroids and sent home with an asthma inhaler which has never been used, and has since tested negative for Covid antibodies.
I just think there is so much we don’t know, and the fear-mongering is not right.
So, anyone have any other other experiences?
Thank you for your response. I didn’t mean to come off as a fear monger. I believe the msm has done a huge disservice about this virus scaring everyone. The emotional damage done by the fear is just as bad as the virus if not worst. Instead of shutting down and cowering we perhaps should have gone to mask wearing sooner. I go out and about living my life taking precautions.
Thank you, too. I’m glad you are feeling well!
Tara,
unfortunately, the 220 thousand plus persons who could best answer your question are unable to respond.
As are the 100,000 who died in 1968, and we didn’t shut down the country
In 2008 I almost died of the flu, at the age of 50, but I didn’t.
On September 27, 2020 my 88 year old mother died of a massive brain bleed, she also tested positive for COVID 19, her death was listed as COVID even though no one knew she had it until she was admitted to the hospital from her assisted living facility, she had no symptoms and no one else in the facility has tested positive, so excuse me but it’s no worse than the flu that killed far more!!!!!!!!
I almost died several times in my youth. What are the odds?
Friday, CDCP reported the odds of getting the Wuhan in Florida at 3.682% aggregate, paying no attention to age, etc., & 0.078% of the Florida population have had the Wuhan attributed as cause of death, of those infected, 0.212% have died from it.
I could understand the fuss, masks, hysteria, etc., if the infection rate were 65%, 75%, 80%, and if 30%, 40%, 50% of population had died from it. It’s not like USA cities have never struggled through such epidemics.
They also started splitting out NYC from NY outside NYC, with the city being considerably worse. They should also report the whole state. Ditto for Florida, Miami-Dade. I like that TR has been tracking the county.
Early on, in survey testing, NYC was up over 21% positive for infection; now they are reporting considerably lower rates. There are some questions about PCR amplification in later tests. Is 4x sufficient (higher risk of false negative), 40x too much (higher risk of false positive)? There is some range of exposure that healthy immune systems shrug off without cranking up, and a different range for hyper immune systems, & another for those impaired, e.g. from transplant rejection suppressors.
At least the docs are using something resembling the scientific method to improve the treatment regimes.
My wife’s uncle, very smart/educated, died from Covid at age 92. 2 weeks ago. He was living in an ALF in PA, no family visitations since March. Family has shared a January 2020 video where he describes his Korean War service in the Air Force. No sign of any mental decline in 1/2020. Great American Success Story cut short by the WuFlu, IMO.
Sorry for you and your wife’s loss. He sounds like a wonderful guy.
I know about 15 people who have had covid. Most of them are young service workers – 25 to 35. For all but one of these, it varied between almost no symptoms (fever and/or aches, might have never known except for testing when fellow employees took ill) to a severe flu. One was very ill and took over two weeks to recover, most were less than a week.
I also know two other individuals, one a 45yo man and his 70yo mother. He is somewhat overweight, she had a stroke a couple of years ago. They both developed pneumonia and were admitted to the hospital, quickly being transferred to icu. She passed away, he slowly recovered. She was admittedly not in perfect health, but she was unlikely to die this summer had she not been infected. I’m still grateful we did not lose him.
Anyway, my personal odds look like ~6% compared to your zero percent. Obviously, the actual numbers lie somewhere in between.
FWIW, I work in a lab and have regular contact with medical staff who can’t possibly avoid contact with infected individuals entirely. I have not been within several yards of another unmasked human in over six months. I am lonely and frustrated, but as of yet I am healthy – as are the relatives I can only contact and try to help support via phones and internet. I will continue this as long as I must, but I sure hope we are closer to the end than the beginning.
I am so sorry that you have been put in such a place of fear. I am 58 and have been working ever since this has started. Out in the public every day and I know no one that has had this and I continue to live my life as I have always done. The only difference is I wear a mask. The N95 that is the only ones that really works. All other masks give people a false sense of security and most likely cause people to get infected because they think they have protection but don’t. You need to go out and live life it is the only life you have.
My 85 y/o mother had all the symptoms a few weeks ago but tested negative. She recovered after about a week. Thirty-something nephew got symptoms a week or so later and tested positive. He felt like crap for three or four days but was back 100% in less than a week. Because he’s a teacher he had to quarantine for 14 days.
Wife or I fly nearly every weekend. We’ve been up and down the east coast from Florida to New Jersey a dozen times or more in the last several months.
To my knowledge, none of my co-workers or their families/relatives have tested positive.
Given the following premises:
Masks and social distancing efforts work to reduce spread of pathogens.
Covid-19 is a real threat to the life and health to you and your loved ones.
Florida is a stand your ground state where you can use deadly force against reasonably perceived threats.
Refusing to wear a mask puts individuals at risk; it is like brandishing a weapon.
Conclusion:
There will be some dead, maskless covidiots and the assailant will probably serve no jail time.
Whether or not you believe masks work, others do and feel threatened when you don’t wear one. Gives new meaning to: Mask it or Casket.
You have serious issues, and you should see someone about them soon. Remember to wear your face diaper when you do.
Edward, you sound Republican, and should face reality and truth here soon, but I’ll bet I’m too late. I’ll bet you even believe jet fuel can melt building structural steel thats been fire retardant treated. Building code since 1930 something. LEARN HOW TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!
We’re too fearful to be free anymore. This is a perfect example and explains why we’re in the process of giving up on America and choosing Socialism.
I think it’s odd that so many none mask supporters who don’t believe Covid-19 is a problem, check this site for statistics. I also believe people like Alex don’t do the pandemic any justice by posting ridiculous comments about people using stand your ground as justification to shoot none mask wearing people. It’s just silly. We must follow state and local laws and policies and when we don’t agree with those laws and policies for public and private places outside of our home because of safety concerns or impediments on our rights, we don’t participate in those places. Full disclosure, I believe this is an awful pandemic and we should all follow the CDC guidelines and we could quell it, but I also believe in laws and policies. So if people don’t want to wear a mask or social distance, I avoid them. I don’t dine at restaurants, but I don’t have a problem with people who choose to. We all make what we believe to be the best choices for ourselves. My choices have kept me healthy throughout this pandemic. Until we have FDA approved treatments and/or vaccines that significantly reduce the current percentage of getting seriously sick or dying, I will continue on my path. We should all choose our own path and respect each other’s choice, as long as it abides by the laws and policies within our cities, counties, and state.
Yes follow the science. Every mask you buy tells you on the package that they do not protect you against the virus. Study from The WHO says 90 percent of the people that get the virus wear a mask and stay at home unless absolutely pessary to go out. I guess you think that if everyone wore a mask 100 percent would never get the virus. You need to think before you comment.
My point was that it has been established that one merely needs to reasonably feel threatened in a stand your ground state to respond with deadly force. Whether or not you personally believe in the risk, it would be difficult to claim that others don’t. Your unmasked face can reasonably be conceived of as a gun (loaded or otherwise) and you can be infectious and not know it. A lawyer can feel free to chime in and show were I am misinterpreting the law. I welcome facts and I don’t own a gun (as I am not so fearful).
We need a universal response to a virus that can/will affect us all. Masks and social distancing have been shown to work. Quarantines have worked for centuries. This is a come together opportunity that has become politicized. Your rights end when they interfere with mine. My right to life Trumps your right to go mask free. Calls for personal responsibility have failed. No one cares that God is watching and judging the harm brought by covidiots.
Edward – I have a serious issue with people who would rather deny the current science and put others at risk of death. When I see people, I always wear a mask. Any time you interact with persons outside your household, you should too.
Robert – We can be American and embrace what works in other countries. I would rather see more social programs that give Americans the foundation needed to have great careers and start business, etc. You can’t pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you never owned shoes.
Jack – If scaring one more person to wear a mask and that reduces the spread to 20 more people, then it is worth it and any criticism that I receive. Maybe it made someone seriously consider the gravity of their choices. Also, it may allow Florida to revisit the stand your ground law and fix or repeal it.
It should also be noted that If you know that you have been exposed and have reason to suspect you could be contagious and still go out and expose/endanger others you could possibly be personally sued by persons you infected. That goes for parents sending their kids to school and exposing other children and teachers when they have reason to suspect their child might be contagious. Bottom line keep your gun holstered and sue them. Threaten their wallet and I bet more will take their actions more seriously.
Thank God you don’t do this kind of Tracking for the FLU.
We have been turned into communities where people can’t socialize, need to stay away from each other, can’t go to work because work has been shut down or, if you’re lucky, you work from home and have no in-person human contact.
In New Jersey, everyone is encouraged to report social gatherings to the police. If you fly into New York or New Jersey from a state they consider a “danger”, you have to fill out a form giving your email, phone#, airline, flight# and seat#. As of now, there are over 30 states on that list. This is done under the umbrella of contact tracing.
What next?
Eventually, everyone will catch the China Bio-Weapon virus (take-19) It’s simply a matter of time and yes; “science”. The good news is… about 99.5% of us will pull through. The others will fall victim to their comorbidity conditions exasperated by the ChiRona.
Wearing a mask to protect yourself against a viral infection, is like wearing a t-shirt to protect yourself against a bullet. Wear one if it makes you feel better about yourself, but don’t expect miracles and stop pretending it matters.
The China Virus is now a full-blown political campaign strategy exploited by the Demunists and supported by the Media PACs, and no longer has any real applications or concerns for public health. Andy “Auschwitz” Cuomo sentenced thousands of innocent people to death due to his homicidal malfeasance, and the Demunists and their Media PACs praised his leadership… let that sink in a bit.
… carry on… oh, and wash your hands often.
I really liked the style and most of the content of this post. So much so, I copied and pasted into a local fb group saying I found it on a comments page elsewhere. Naturally, a philosophical opponent immediately responded to the post. “Offensive”. “Incorrect”. “involving Holocaust”. I guess it’s more powerful than I thought.
you are surely edward trump, not edward lyle.
A lot of discussion about masks and our response. Mask wearing is much more political here than in most other countries, though there are demonstrations all over the world.
Found this info very interesting I think it shows that compared to most countries the US has learned least over time….
https://www.axios.com/united-states-coronavirus-death-rate-a40eb02b-bf8c-4146-8ef2-3cfd6b22de5b.html
We even lag behind Sweden. While everyone think they are going for heard immunity, gatherings of more than 50 people are banned indoors and outdoors. Compared to that our approach seems inadequate. Especially as we have examples shown on all news channels of large gatherings with most people not wearing masks. We should do something similar to limit groups of people.
Did you even read the link that you posted? Directly from the source:
“Yes, but: Death rates are not static, as this study proves, and outbreaks in several European countries have taken a turn for the worse lately.”
Come back in 5 years and you will have your answers to who had the best approach. Spoiler alert — There is a very real chance that every country ends up similar regardless of approach. So in the meantime ask yourself how much freedom you are willing to give up and for how long?
I have my answer already and it is no more than I have already lost, and I will start fighting for those back as well. Quality of life is important too!
I am not sure how death rates increasing now changes the data? Going forward it will change.
I do not want to give up my freedom and that is why I am concerned that there is so much fighting against masks and restrictions on numbers of people meeting. In Sweden, which is touted for going for herd immunity, They limit gatherings to 50 people indoors or out and are trying to enforce it. Here we ignore the easy things and fight on partisan lines against a force of nature rather than using common sense.
Quality of life is hugely important hence the need to take steps to slow this spread until a vaccine is here. I am absolutely against lockdowns but as long as the example of super spreader events is in the public eye people will not stop meeting in large family/social groups which will be a problem.
Unfortunately if you read the international press (not just the translations that are given in US news) while not a complete laughing stock they are shocked at what is going on over here.
Mike, so sick of hearing how the US is the laughing stock for this or that from Europe of all places. Most of those countries were flat broke before COVID due to their Socialist policies, mainly due to healthcare and education. In any event, I just read a study done on the European nations pertaining to excess deaths. Most European countries have basically stopped reporting COVID-related deaths, partially because they aren’t testing as much to know if someone is positive before they died, and they certainly aren’t wasting test kits on people after they died – my India colleagues echoed that for their Country. The article also said England and others aren’t reporting because not everyone is reporting the same and some will look worse than others. Where have we heard this before. Instead, the only fair way is to look at excess deaths compared to previous years. While the US is around 11-12% excess deaths, not good, England, Wales, and Spain were at 37% for multiple months during the peak. This is why trying to judge our numbers against Europe, Russia, China, Iran, is absolutely futile and meaningless. The US Govt doesn’t control the news here, that’s for sure.
Someone else said on this blog that we need to wait a few years for the dust settles to really evaluate each Country’s strategy, that is spot on.
Taking a snapshot of the data at a point in time does not give you the slightest clue as to what the whole story is. It absolutely matters a ton if the death rates are rising again in Europe and ours are declining. Check the numbers again in 6 months .. and then a year , and then 2 years. At that point you will have some idea of what might have worked and what might not have (although you still won’t have the whole picture). There is no scientific evidence that we can ever stop a virus like this through any means other than herd immunity. A vaccine could potentially help get to herd immunity faster but it is not guaranteed that we can actually develop one at all (look at the failure rates for seasonal flu vaccines).
It is not a problem for me if people keep meeting in groups and even in large numbers (and you can’t stop them as both sides are doing it!). By the way, I absolutely do not care what the international press thinks, in fact I am inclined to believe that if they think America is taking the wrong approach then we are on the right track.
Herd immunity without mass vaccination is a fantasy. That is like saying Black Death achieved herd immunity for the population of Europe. This concept of which you and others speak is magical thinking cloaking in scientized language. Enough already. It has cause the suffering and death of too many already. And this new virus does not behave like the flu. It is explosive in the way that it spreads in concentrated loads in crowds and unventilated spaces and then overwhelms hospitals and clinics. Simple precautions such as making, distancing, hand-washing, and limiting crowds, and reducing the number of people in spaces that are not well-ventilated can slow the transmission rate down. These precautions are beneficial such that even if people do catch the virus, they are not afflicted with a high viral load of it, making survivability more likely.
That article is a perfect example of “Torture numbers long enough and they will admit to anything.”
It conveniently leaves out the countries that started spiking after May 10. They justified it by calling the countries they selected “peers”, by finding a commonality between them. It also gives no mention to the size of these countries vs. the US. The northeast part of the country, which is bigger than Italy, spiked in March/April and it has followed Italy’s coronavirus pattern. The part further south spiked later, in July/August, along with several other countries. That article is meaningless.
The new thing in this country now is to put ourselves down and believe we are the laughingstock of the world. Well, anyone who laughs at people dying is really a nitwit, so why give it a second thought?
Seems weve plateued, which is bad. Need those hospitalizations to keep going down or we’ll never get back to normal.
Middle class private business will get back to normal. The professional gov’t employees and pajama crowd of private employers/employees who can afford to work from home, may never return. Fine. I drive the roads of Orlando every day. Somebody is doing something b/c the roads are very busy. Maybe they’re just driving to drug store to replenish their mask supply, but I think it looks like businesses are operating.
Wearing masks everywhere, takeout, limited capacity, canceles events is not normal.
Checking in 6 months and a day since my first post in this thread. There was a time when people could agree that running on wet slippery concrete by a swimming pool was a bad idea. Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians and Socialists. People who loved the President [Ike] and people who hated the President. When info came on a TV network about running on wet concrete by a swimming pool – the solution always seemed the same: “Don’t do it!”
Actually, many of us had the experience of observing someone running on wet concrete by a swimming pool – and the frequent results. Have a great day and good luck!
This post provides an interesting 6 month narrative of responses and arguments. However, none are very persuasive about anything! And I know as little about virus response methodology and expected results as I did 6 months ago.
More fun with numbers…
Of the 14 states now experiencing the highest Covid cases…9 of them do not have statewide mask mandates.
The wearing of face masks is a proven deterrent to spreading the virus. But ONLY if everyone does it. A mask does not protect you. It protects everyone else around you. That is why states who understand this have mandated them. That is why municipalities that understand this have mandated it despite opposing governors.
So when people decide that they don’t need to wear a mask they are really deciding the destiny of all of the people around them. Rather selfish I think.
That is why you see the numbers go down when these mandates are followed.
Miami-Dade county was the epicenter of Covid in FL with over 172,000 cases.
On July 29th Miami-Dade hit its highest case rate of 5,564 per day. In response to this, the mayor imposed a mask mandate in mid July. By August 17 cases dropped to 713 per day. By Sept 6th cases per day dropped to 345 per day and has stayed that low through Oct 7.
Coincidence?
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/florida/county/miami-dade-county
Bunch of BS, case numbers are totally dependent upon amount of testing, period. The virus has already spread far and wide all over the Country, there is no hiding from it, either with a mask or under your bed. Broward County has had a mask mandate since April 10, yet, the cases and hospitalizations spiked in July/Aug and now in Sept/Oct have come down drastically. Did anything change? Yeah, we opened up more and went to Phase 2 and now Phase 3!. It’s called herd immunity and T-cells which is certainly the case in densely populated Miami-Dade, where Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunt/Cousins/Friends, all live together in the same 2000 sq ft house.
Cases are supposedly surging across the Country, that’s what you’ll hear lately, but of course the lamestream media conveniently leaves out that we’ve performed over 1M tests per day on multiple days in the past week – it was previously 800K-900K per day. Guess what, if the positivity rate stays the same, which it has at 5%, doing more tests means more cases. DUH!
Hospitalizations are WAY down from their peak, and deaths/day, is now hovering around 700/day – which is still questionable given only 6% are actually dying FROM COVID-19. Joe Biden famously said if we wore masks for the last 3 months of 2020 we could save 200K lives. Great math Sleepy Joe. Even if 1000/day were dying, which they are not, that would be 90K total more deaths by end of 2020. Hard to save 200K lives with masks when only 90K, worst case, are dying to begin with. What a fear mongering idiot. When you have nothing to run on, you just make stuff up to scare people.
I appreciate the lengthy and thorough explanation of your opinion. Unfortunately your snarky use of the phrase “guess what?”, completely compromises the accuracy and credibility of everything you said. There’s too much guess work going in as it is. We certainly don’t need to be encouraging people to indulge in more.
The models are quite clear. I would suggest you view the IHME models at this page:
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
before touting falsehoods, IHME model actually, has UNDERESTIMATED in many parts of the country in the past 9 months. Some of those underestimations were due to the fact that some states refused to put in mask mandates. Also see this Kansas study:
Kansas study: https://ipsr.ku.edu/covid19/images/MaskMandateUpdate.pdf
The falsehood that “hospitalizations and deaths are WAY down” is based on these simple facts (follow the logic):
At the beginning of the pandemic, the only people that qualified for COVID tests were the seriously ill, e.g. seeking admission into hospital, or hospitalized.
Now, with more widespread testing, there are many more “low risk” groups (younger, for example) being tested.
Do the math, as an example:
In an example day in Mar 2020, 100 people short of breath seeking hospitalization get tested. 100 are tested. In this example, 75 are COVID-positive. (100% were hospitalized).
In Sept 2020, after schools open, and contact tracing dictates that classmates, teachers, other staff are tested, after coming in contact with a COVID-positive student.
So in this example, 100 people are tested on a particular day in Sept 2020.
Of those 100, only 10 were seeking hospitalization care due to shortness of breath, etc. Of those 10, 6 are COVID-positive.
The remaining 90 were simply getting tests because of contact tracing. Of those, let’s say that 20 were COVID-positive.
So in this September example, total 26 are positive, but only 6 of them were hospitalized. So now in Sept, only 6% tested were hospitalized, and 23% of all COVID-positive tests were hospitalized (6 people / 26 total COVID-positive).
Comparing % hospitalizations (and deaths) of COVID-positive individuals between March (100% hospitalized) and now (23% hospitalized) is blatant DATA MANIPULATION.
It is not due to “improved therapeutics,” which is what current administration is touting as the reason for such better improved death/hospitalization rates.
Current “therapeutics” are extremely expensive and not available to most of us “po folks” and certainly, we would not have access to the early in disease progress hospital admission plus triple-pronged approach to attack the disease (dexamethasone+MAb+remdesivir).
The typical person would not be hospitalized that early in the disease progression and certainly could not afford (even if they got special access to MAb treatment).
Here are more details on the treatment which we as tax payers provided to the person who wants us all to go out and get COVID and not let it dominate our lives:
Experts said Trump’s helicopter rides to and from the hospital, diagnostic testing and imaging, experimental prescription drugs, a private suite, round-the-clock care, and additional personal protective equipment required for outings would cost at least hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions, of dollars.
“I would not be surprised if it were to exceed $1m,” said Dr Bruce Y Lee, a professor at the City University of New York School of Public Health, whose recent work has estimated how much a course of Covid-19 treatment would cost an average American.
“The majority of Americans don’t have the best treatments, whatever he said, because it’s about access,” said Lee. “The care that he received is available only to a very small minority of Americans.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/trump-covid-treatment-health-insurance
Last, comparison of COVID death rates, from the beginning of the pandemic, summarized at this page:
https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/102320_covidupdate.html
(about halfway down the page, COVID deaths per 100,000)
Adapted from Bilinski et al. COVID-19 Mortality in the US Compared with that of other countries. Data on COVID-19 deaths from February 13 to September 19, 2020 (n?=?198,589 US deaths). All mortality rates are statistically significantly different from the corresponding US mortality rates (p?<0.001).
If you would like some basic information on what p-values and Confidence Intervals (CI) are, see these pages:
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/ap-statistics/tests-significance-ap/idea-significance-tests/a/p-value-conclusions
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/statistics-probability/confidence-intervals-one-sample
Hawaii spiked in cases after they implemented an outdoor mask mandate. Coincidence?
BK, good point, and looking at Hawaii’s current Travel Requirements, besides the ridiculous mask nonsense, they are still locked down tighter than a drum for travel from the Mainland.
“Beginning October 15, 2020, a pre-travel testing option will allow travelers an alternative to Hawaii’s 14-day quarantine”
So they are still quarantining everyone that lands for 14 days, and you know it’s easier to enforce that considering everyone has to enter via plane right now. Can’t blame those nasty non mask-wearing tourists.
Sorry Gary. The wearing of masks is not a “proven deterrent” to the spread of covid. So far we only have anecdotal inference; correlation does not imply causation. There isn’t a single evidence-based study proving the efficacy of masks (although one large study is underway in Denmark). This is not to say that the wearing of masks is a bad idea, or that the wearing of masks won’t eventually prove to be useful. But we should be precise when utilizing scientific language. And yes, I’m a physician.
Glenn,
No, I am not a physician.
However, on July 14 the CDC did say,
“We are not defenseless against COVID-19,” said CDC Director Dr. Robert R. Redfield. “Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus – particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities.”
I consider “slow and stop” as a phrase that means “deterrent”
Is your position is that you don’t trust the CDC?
My post was in regards to masks. I feel it’s counterproductive to criticize the governmental agencies at this point. But yes they have made some mistakes. My point was that the wearing of masks has turned into a religion and my fear is that the public has been led to believe that if you’re wearing a mask it’s ok to ignore other more proven methods of deterrence.
I don’t think that the public is in any danger of being misled “to believe that if you’re wearing a mask it’s ok to ignore other more proven methods of deterrence.”
The fundamental issue on this website seems to be a disbelief that masks help at all OR that yes they do, but I don’t need to wear one because its my right not to.
If you know some other very easy to do method to stop the spread that people will adopt without hesitancy PLEASE share it.
Because the path we are on now will get us nowhere.
Eventually, everyone will catch the China Bio-Weapon virus (take-19) It’s simply a matter of time and yes; “science”. The good news is… about 99.5% of us will pull through. The others will fall victim to their comorbidity conditions exasperated by the ChiRona.
Wearing a mask to protect yourself against a viral infection, is like wearing a t-shirt to protect yourself against a bullet. Wear one if it makes you feel better about yourself, but don’t expect miracles and stop pretending it matters.
… carry on… oh, and wash your hands often.
Let’s take your points one by one.
“China bio-weapon”: COVID-19 was not man-made. Furthermore, the strain that is infecting the US evolved in Italy, and came over Europe. This is why Trump’s policy to limit some (but not even most) travel from China was ineffective.
“Good news… 99.5% will pull through”. We have a population of 300+ million people. 0.5% of that is 1.5 million Americans who don’t “pull through”. That’s certain not “Good News” by any reasonable definition. And, many of those who “pulled through” will suffer long term health and cognitive impairments.
The primary reason to wear a mask is not to protect yourself from the virus, it’s to protect other people from you in case you have it and don’t realize it. This is particularly important with COVID-19 because people who have it are most contagious *before* they show any symptoms.
But hey, you got the washing your hands often part right. So you’ve got that going for you.
Reports have come out saying covid-19 is man made. So until we know with absolute certainty you can’t really make a blanket statement that it isn’t.
A mask does protect the wearer. When I was hospitalized the medical staff didn’t wear a mask. When it was known I was contagious with the flu they then wore a mask, not asking me to wear one. So that argument is false that it doesn’t protect the wearer. I believe it was not pushed at first due to a mask shortage.
Please explain why South Korea does so well if it is not the masks, that everyone wears as normal, that are not making the difference? Remember we got the first case of Covid on the same day as them……
Mike,
Because most of the Asian countries have some “memory” immunity built up from all the viruses they’ve dealt with over the years. Malaria, Dengue fever, Typhoid, H1NI, etc. Lots of cases when they test of course, but mortality rate is much lower – reference India. Japan only tests when someone is actually sick enough to go to the hospital – similar to why New York is not showing nearly as many cases as they’ve actually had.
It also doesn’t hurt that most of the people over there are not morbidly obese with diabetes and hypertension issues.
This virus is teaching Americans a valuable lesson, that you need to eat better, exercise regularly, and see a Doctor BEFORE you are very sick,
My friend, you need to learn a bit more about the biochemistry/biology involved in human immunity. See this page, basic immuno lesson:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-human-body-systems/hs-the-immune-system/a/hs-the-immune-system-review
Immunity is achieved by highly specific protein-protein interactions (antibody-antigen). The proteins on the outside of the malarian plasmodium parasite (not a virus) are nothing like the spike proteins on the outside of the SARS-CoV-2 virus (the virus that causes COVID19).
Dengue virus is in a totally different family of viruses than SARS-CoV-2, in the Flaviviridae; genus Flavivirus.
Even SARS disease virus (a coronavirus) is significantly different in its spike protein amino acid sequence, that antibodies developed against SARS will not interact with SARS-CoV-2 antigens:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30098-7/fulltext
Specifically, the argument that Asian countries are doing so much better (per capita) than US is that they have been exposed to similar viruses has been disproven in one of the most definitive studies at the link above. A few details:
“a seropositive rate of 2·73% (53 of 1938 serum samples) in SARS-CoV-2 enzyme immunoassays”
and
“There are seven types of coronaviruses that naturally infect humans. SARS-CoV-2, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) can cause severe acute respiratory illnesses. By contrast, the four endemic genotypes, including 229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1, usually only cause mild upper respiratory tract infections, and thus can be classified as low-pathogenic human coronaviruses. In total, there have been just over 10?000 cases of SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. Because of their genetic relation with SARS-CoV-2 (appendix), the generation of cross-reactive antibodies is not surprising. However, as the population exposed to these two coronaviruses was very small and the outbreaks occurred some years ago, their effect on the global COVID-19 pandemic would be minimal.”
Do you tell the doctor that he doesn’t need a mask before operating on you?
I think the pushback on mask-wearing is coming from people getting sick of the media fear-mongering. I believe the media has gotten so bad in this country, it’s sickening.
I don’t watch ANY American TV anymore except for football when my husband has it on. After Sunday’s game I didn’t turn it off quick enough and caught the first couple of minutes of 60 minutes. How low that show has sunk! It used to be a favorite, but after 2 minutes I was disgusted by the partisan nonsense and ridiculous spin. And of course they just won’t stop with coronavirus. Yes, it’s very contagious, yes, it will be very harmful to some. Enough already, it’s not the only game in town and there are plenty other deadly illnesses. So many are living in fear of this virus that odds are will not be that harmful to them. Yes, we all know it will be harmful to some and no one is saying too bad for them.
I have a friend whose son was just diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer at 28 years old. You know how he feels about constantly hearing about this virus that does no harm to most people while his son is battling a disease that is devastating for everyone who gets it? This whole thing is just plain sickening on so many levels. People blaming it on Trump because they hate him, people self-righteously judging people on mask-wearing (and yes, most of them are hypocrites, from my experience), people afraid to leave their house.
I’d take my chances with this virus any day over listening to all the talk about it. I’m getting old now. There are worse things older folk have to worry about, like heart issues, Alzheimer’s, stroke. Eff this virus, I’m sick of hearing about it. Everyone I know who got it, it was a big, fat nothing. *knock on wood*
Death rates per age group:
Age group All Deaths involving COVID-19 Deaths from All Causes
45–54 years 11,093 130,088
55–64 years 26,525 297,499
65–74 years 45,015 450,532
75–84 years 55,089 548,255
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
—
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-73777-8
From January 26, 2020, through October 3, 2020, an estimated 299,028 more persons than expected have died in the United States.** Excess deaths reached their highest points to date during the weeks ending April 11 (40.4% excess) and August 8, 2020 (23.5% excess) (Figure 1). Two thirds of excess deaths during the analysis period (66.2%; 198,081) were attributed to COVID-19 and the remaining third to other causes†† (Figure 1).
Although more excess deaths have occurred among older age groups, relative to past years, adults aged 25–44 years have experienced the largest average percentage increase in the number of deaths from all causes from late January through October 3, 2020. The age distribution of COVID-19 deaths shifted toward younger age groups from May through August (9); however, these disproportionate increases might also be related to underlying trends in other causes of death. Future analyses might shed light on the extent to wh